[Spiwak]

I just finished playin through Knights of the Old Republic as a Jedi and WOW. What an experience. I'm tempted to play through the whole game again as a dark-side characters this time (as daunting as it is to take on another 40 hours of work). But wow, I've decided that BioWare is definitely my favorite RPG developer. I mean, have they ever messed up? I've been in love with both Baldur's Gates since they first came out, and I also relaly like Neverwinter Nights, and then this masterpiece that's probably on par with Shadows of Amn.

Now it's time for Sith Lords, but a part of me is worried about it simply because BioWare didn't make it (which I don't even get). I don't know much about Obsidian except that Chris Avellone and Feargus Urquhart helped in the creation of some the Black Isle RPGs of the late nineties, which I also loved. But just from a bit of reading it seems KotOR II doesn't focus on things like story or characters, which were for me the reason I enjoyed the first so much. But I shouldn't be quick to judge, I'll play through it...

Anyone maybe know anything about a third? Would it be under BioWare or Obsidian?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

So I just got KOTOR....wot now? (spoilers!)



You also need to play Jade Empire. Hope you have an Xbox.

[such great heights]

Bioware is just a great, great company. Baldur's Gate represent!

Sith Lords is a bit hit-or-miss. It was one of, if not the first game out of Obsidian...? Regardless, Bioware + Obsidian is the closest you're going to get to the teams that made up Black Isle (the Interplay divison that published all of and developed a few of the Infinity engine games). Trust them! NWNII is going to be fab-u-lous.

[CrimsonBlue]

The Obsidian team created games such as Fallout 1 and 2 and Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2. So I wouldn't say they lacked experience (or respect).

[MoriartyL]

Maybe you guys can enlighten me...

I've played KotOR for the PC, and it's very good, no question. But it's also completely forgettable, disposable entertainment. I can't understand why so many sites seriously considered naming it the best game of 2003. Don't get me wrong- I did enjoy it. What it tries to do, it does well. But it doesn't do much. It aims low. The characters are just like the characters of any other RPG. The story is generic, except for the plot twist which completely fails to shock. The dark/light choice doesn't make you feel like a Jedi as much as it takes away any integrity from your character: What kind of person goes along a single path (say the path of the Dark side) for so long, and then suddenly decides to go in the opposite direction. It doesn't make any sense, and it feels gimmicky.

So it is a successful RPG. But is that enough to be given all the praise it's gotten?

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

So it is a successful RPG. But is that enough to be given all the praise it's gotten?

Uh... yes. It's the best RPG from the best RPG developer in history. It's, together with Fallout 1 and 2, the only pure RPG to make it to my top 10 list of best games ever (EVER, not just 2003).


I don't think it aims low, not at all. It's actually quite ambitious.

For starters, it's very gripping emotionally and contains some of the best plot twists and overall storytelling of all time. That's not an easy feat to accomplish. There's no cheapness in writing an outstanding script. Good writing is severely lacking in today's gaming industry.

Secondly, it's set in a very well-known universe. This has consequences. People expect the stuff they love from Star Wars, yet they want a new, original story, new yet strangely familiar worlds, and so on. They could've easily sticked to the classic Star Wars approach, and interweave the story with the all-too-familiar story of the movies, but they decided to place the game in a different time period instead. Once again, not the easiest approach, and certainly not cheap.


No, sorry, I can't agree with you at all on this. KOTOR deserves all the praise it got, and then some. I don't really see why you would call KOTOR forgettable, disposable entertainment. What are you comparing it against?

[SakSquash]

I hate turn based games. I tried this game, but I thought it blew goats.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

So it is a successful RPG. But is that enough to be given all the praise it's gotten?

I would think so. Personally, I think that Kotor holds nothing against "Planescape", "Baldur's Gate" or "Fallout". In many ways, at least. But the highly cinematic storytelling hardly found in the former games and some great quests more than make up for that.

Bioware is the Lucas Arts of this decade. More power to them.

[The Seed]

I played this a while ago but gave up about mid way through after remembering I'm completely hopeless at RPG's, seriously I seem to be able to totally screw things up right at the character selection stage and find myself unable to advance my skills properly throughout the game.

However, I've been playing through Jade Empire which I think is kind of similar to KOTOR, albeit much simpler and accessible to non RPG players, and it's really made me want to give KOTOR another go. Just wandering though, what are peoples recommendations of what kind of character to go for, what force powers to choose/stay clear of etc?

[Phantom]

KOTOR is actually very easy, even on hard difficulty. Several feats/powers are seriously overpowered. I guess the easiest way to play the game is by taking a Soldier/Guardian and abuse the flurry feat.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Phantom

No, sorry, I can't agree with you at all on this. KOTOR deserves all the praise it got, and then some. I don't really see why you would call KOTOR forgettable, disposable entertainment. What are you comparing it against?

Japanese RPGs, I suppose. Admittedly, I don't have all that much experience with RPGs from anywhere. I just didn't see anything, in playing KotOR, to make me say "Wow.", nor did I find it particularly emotional. I've forgotten every one of the characters, and only remember the plot very vaguely. That's why I consider it forgettable. Maybe "disposable" is too strong a word, but I meant that it doesn't really stay with you when you finish. You play it, you enjoy it, and that's it. There's no more to it than that.

[samIamsad]

Easy it is. There is nothing to screw up. I was having a little bit of a hard time with the ending battle (the only really tough battle in the whole game), apparently because I didn't have some feats that make it easier to beat the boss. But some tries later I made it.

I'm also surprised that so many people worry so much about what character class to pick, what skills to develop and so on. I never had any trouble even with the most hardcore computer RPGs, even in the cases I didn't know anything about the stat and combat systems behind them. I just started the game, picked a character class that sounded interesting to me and enjoyed the ride. As said, Kotor isn't hardcore. At all.

[RLacey]

Oh, the last boss of KotOR.

Spoiler:

I actually killed him by fighting him down to minimum health. And, yes, it required every health kit I'd ever collected, all the force heal I could muster and a whole lot of luck, because if you do it this way you have to kill him about a dozen times .

[samIamsad]

Heheh. I don't remember exactly (it's been over a year ago..), but I ended up constantly running away from

Spoiler:

him

and using some stylish force power. Can't remember which one exactly, but it must have surely looked funnay.

And MoriartyL, 9,9999 (whoops, 9.9999) out of ten games are like that, at least in my book.

[RLacey]

Spoiler:

I just lightsaber attacked him, using up every health kit (I'd been playing on easy combat mode, and used none during the rest of the game), every force recharge kit and so on. I managed to get him to suck up all of the souls or whatever it is that he does, but he then killed me on the last one as I had run out of healing stuff. So, instead, I loaded my game at this last stage, ran away from him and used throw lightsaber, which guarantees a hit. Ten seconds later he was dead .

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I just didn't see anything, in playing KotOR, to make me say "Wow.", nor did I find it particularly emotional. I've forgotten every one of the characters, and only remember the plot very vaguely.

Strange, I have the complete opposite experience. I still remember fondly many of the moments and characters of KOTOR. Makes you wonder why we experience the same game completely differently. Context? Previous experiences? Mental state? I have no idea.

[Corley]

I actually thought number 2 with all its problems handled the characters and stuff in a more approriate manner.

The reason it doesnt compare to fallout, planescape is because first and foremost a console rpg, and i'm sure if u look at releases you'll see console gamers are considered dumb.

Look at the fallout game released.

Still very fun games, and v.successful

[jjacob]

You raise an interesting question (to me anyhow), is there a third installment planned in any way? Obviously Bioware is busy with Mass Effect and Obsidian with the next NWN but is there a chance of another developer picking up the glove?

[Corley]

Well i doubt Bioware will ever go back to it, as they have a couple of othergames in the works no? isnt there something with dragons in the title.

Obsidian maybe, depends on the amount of folk they have i guess.

Other than that its whoever LucasArts want to pawn off the development too, they could develop it in house.

If i remember correctly there was a press release mentioning it, and they mentioned they were losing the turn based combat system, going for soley real time...

It is gonna happen, when i dunno - will try and find that news snippet

[Spiwak]

Obsidian is making a second NWN? Are they basically the sequel chapter of the BioWare company now? (just kidding)