[Garyos]

Since I've been branded a fanboi, I guess I should respond to this piece of schlock journalism forthwith. Maybe I should add a OMG YUO SUCK!!!111 every once in a while, and call you a moron from time to time.

Except that the article was fair and balanced and was a pretty good portrayal of what the game is like.

The problem is how you approach this game. In many ways, Uru is a much more progressive, daring and new way to play an AG than BS3 is (I'm saying this without having played BS3, though) - and I'm not even thinking of the online portion here.

The game uses 3D like it was an actual 3D game, not just an adventure point and clicker that happens to be in 3D with keyboard controls. You have to fully explore every inch of the game world, jumping, running, climbing, changing viewpoints... Finding the tapestries isn't always about solving some mechanical puzzle, it's about searching and jumping and backtracking. Cyan obviously put this in so you would really be playing in a 3D world, where it would be pointless to just click around everywhere. You have to look. I agree it isn't always well implemented (the waterfall puzzle was frustrating as heck), but when it works, it works. So no wonder someone who says "This isn't Myst!" would be disappointed. And I'm sure they're quite justified in saying so, because it isn't. It's Uru.

And I have to go to school now, so I'm not sure if this jumbling writing here gets my point across or not. I'll see when I get back....

[BacardiJim]

You exactly made my point for me, Garyos. Myst, Riven and Exile weren't about looking behind rocks or under tables or wherever to find things. Everything was out in plain sight. You just had to figure out how the hell to use what you found. Note one of my concluding comments: "For many players, it [URU] will seem more like a game of hide and seek."

I didn't say there was anything necessarily wrong with that. Merely that it wasn't what Theresa and I expected from a game bearing the Myst name.

And I'm glad that you found the article balanced and fair. Thank you.

[Bard09]

Although I haven't touched the game yet, I am still excited to play. Let's just hope it's not Garyos' enthusiasm getting the better of me

The only "negative" about the game that seems like it would irritate me is the kicking of crates thing. That is so very lame. What does the manual say about it?

URU: Ages of Myst's Exciting New Features:

**You can now solve puzzles by kicking objects around!**

Other than the kicking issue and perhaps the camera movement, I am still excited to play when my copy arrives tomorrow.

Let's hope, Bacardi Jim, that Uru Live refines some of these issues!

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

You exactly made my point for me, Garyos. Myst, Riven and Exile weren't about looking behind rocks or under tables or wherever to find things. Everything was out in plain sight. You just had to figure out how the hell to use what you found. Note one of my concluding comments: "For many players, it [URU] will seem more like a game of hide and seek."

I didn't say there was anything necessarily wrong with that. Merely that it wasn't what Theresa and I expected from a game bearing the Myst name.

And I'm glad that you found the article balanced and fair. Thank you.

Yeah, I don't disagree with your article at all, I just wanted to portray it from a different viewpoint.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by Bard09

URU: Ages of Myst's Exciting New Features:

**You can now solve puzzles by kicking objects around!**

Other than the kicking issue and perhaps the camera movement, I am still excited to play when my copy arrives tomorrow.

Let's hope, Bacardi Jim, that Uru Live refines some of these issues!

Well, in the puzzle Jim mentions with the buttons, it's fun to kick things around. It works pretty well (and I think the extra twist to that puzzle made it better, and it's not true that you didn't need the map). But the waterfall puzzle is just too frustrating IMO, since it involves a lot of backtracking if you don't do it perfectly.

[BacardiJim]

errrrr..... It is true that you don't need the map to escape the slave cell.

Spoiler:

The solution is to put one bone on each of the 4 plates that are closest to the two doors. Two on each side.

This makes the map and the deciphered numbers irrelevant.

[emma]

I gotta keep telling myself "down girl, down!" so I guess I'm a fangirl, really. Thought your diary was great, Jim! Haven't played it yet, since it's taking forever to get here. I had kind of looked forward to sit here with the note book, and scribble down stuff to decipher, lol, I will probably miss that. Good to know beforehand, though! Thanks a lot!

[DFish]

I found this article very interesting, and here's why..

I'll state up front that I am not a fan of Myst or games like it. Also, I am not a fan of online multi player games. However, this game has intrigued me for some time.

So this weekend I was downloading a couple game demos and decided to give this single player demo of URU a shot. I did, and after about 20 minutes of pushing buttons and pulling levers that don't seem to do anything, and not having any idea of what I was supposed to be trying to do, I came to the opposite conclusion. Yes, this is in fact another Myst game, absolutely.

It looked pretty but bored me quickly. So instead I started up the demo of Railroad Tycoon 3, which held my interest for the rest of the day on Saturday.

Interesting the different perspectives we have on games though. I do feel I need to give the game a fair chance though. And the online part still intrigues me, so maybe I'll have to try it again.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

errrrr..... It is true that you don't need the map to escape the slave cell.

Spoiler:

The solution is to put one bone on each of the 4 plates that are closest to the two doors. Two on each side.

This makes the map and the deciphered numbers irrelevant.

Did you find that out by trial and error? Because if you did you just didn't find the additional clue to solve the puzzle, where you need to know the numbering of the plates to understand it.

EDIT: And if you don't understand how it works, you won't be able to return there later, until you DO use the map and the other hint to decipher the system.

[Jackal]

A couple comments, intended to be constructive.

First, I know you can't (and shouldn't) ignore your Myst background, BJ, but you spend a lot of time sharing what Uru is NOT, and not as much time telling us what it IS. That's great for those that share your experience, but there are a whole lot of people, even here, that haven't played through the first three games. Whether overly ambitious or not, one of the goals of Uru was to reach BEYOND the traditional "Myst-style" gamer, so it'd be nice to have more feedback on Uru as a standalone product. I realize this is a "diary", but for all intents and purposes, it also serves as an interim review of the single player game.

The flip side is that in adding “action” elements, the designers have seemingly dumbed down the puzzle aspects from the earlier Myst games.

Regarding that line, why make that connection? Your own example proves clearly that the game HAS cerebral puzzles, but the fact that you found them illogical certainly has nothing to do with the action elements of Uru. Understood that some puzzles include physical challenges, but I still don't see any correlation between that and poor puzzle design. If they ARE connected, you need to explain that better. If not, it sounds more like biased commentary that serves no purpose.

The only other thing that probably ISN'T constructive is why you insist that graphically Uru isn't "truly Myst". There's actually only one realMyst, and it looks a whole lot more like Uru (from what I've seen) than the original. I know you're making a point to compare Uru to the static-screened predecessors, but it seems odd for fans to define what IS Myst, when the designers themselves always envisioned it as the kind of dynamic gameworld like Uru.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Hmm. BJ, with due respect to your insightful and informative 'diary entry' article, I'm gonna have to agree with Singer here. I don't know how much you've read about Uru during its development process, but anecdotally speaking (yes, as you first did when you began posting here, so I'll do it too - it's only fair) I got the feeling after reading as much as I could about the upcoming game - from interviews with Rand Miller to various previews to screenshots, movie clips, and news bites - that Uru was not a Myst game in the truest, proper, most conservative sense. I instead got the feeling that it possessed the Myst pedigree, that it was capable of effecting an atmosphere and experience similar to the Myst games, but that at the same time it represents a departure from them, an evolutionary step towards something new and decidedly less traditionally Myst-like.

And if I may be allowed to quote myself from my review of realMyst I had posted in the Reader Reviews section (since then removed to make room for new reviews):

The Miller brothers, Rand and Robyn, originally envisioned a staggeringly beautiful, dynamic, living and breathing 3D world which lucky explorers can 'walk into' and traverse to their heart's content, taking their sweet time, and without even an ounce of worry about dying or dealing with any kind of threat at all. Unfortunately they dreamt of this world during the early 90s, when the technology, at least for the casual computer gamer, was in itself only a dream. But they forged on anyway, using a graphics software for their Macintosh Apple that was, if not at all capable of rendering in real time 3D was at least able to present their dream in a stunning glorified slideshow, and from their fertile imagination came what would become one of the greatest selling computer game in history, Myst.

Flash forward to the year 2000. The 3D graphics accelerator card is not only commonplace, it is also practically essential to most computer gamers. The Miller brothers were now in the green to do what they had always wanted, and so they took their original game to Sunsoft, collaborated on the development of a proprietary 3D engine, and produced what could have been the godmother of all adventure games, realMYST.

[BacardiJim]

Singer:

There is nothing you have ever said to me that was meant to be "constructive." It is by now pretty common knowledge that you revel in attacking everything I say on any forum. I have pretty much quit posting in this forum except for the most trivial comments or to offer game hints because I am sick and tired of this personal vendetta you somehow took up against me. It seems the only way to avoid your animosity is for me to not post at all.

Regarding the article, I originally included more explicit examples of poor puzzle design, but they were cut for editorial reasons. The style and content were as much decided by Evan as by myself. If you don't like what did and did not get included in the final version, take it up with him. But don't go around bashing me with the "personally biased reviewer" hammer.

In fact, since you have never once had anything positive to say to or about me (and usually not even civil, much less positive) and you apparently never will, I, for one, would be happy if you ignored my posts and restrained yourself from commenting on my writing at all.

[Bard09]

Jim, don't let one bad apple get you down. I'm still new to these forums, but I found your Uru Diaries #1 to be both insightful and fair. Keep up the good work

[Zack]

Well, I just finished reading the first part of the Uru Diaries, and I have to say that I agree with everyone who said that it was a very well balanced review. That said, I'm surprised to hear that this is not a true MYST Game. I am very puzzled by that. I've been following the development of the game by reading all of the updated news for the game, and I've read some of the reviews, too. It sounds just like a Myst game. You're alone in a beautifully detailed environment with no one to talk to, and you go around the world solving puzzles. That's the type of gameplay the last three Myst games had, so how can a game like this not be a true Myst game?. Someone, please answer that.

The thing that really intrigues me about the game, is that you can actually walk around in the game rather than just going step-by-step from one screen to another, and that you can also create the character that you're going to play in the game. I'm definitely going to have to play the demo for this game, someday.

P.S. Please don't be offended about what I said earlier. I'm just confused that someone would think that Uru: Ages Beyond Myst isn't a true Myst game, that's all.

[BacardiJim]

Is URU truly a Myst game? It depends on your definition. Note that I said that "some players" (including ourselves) will come away with that feeling. Not all of them. What makes a game "Myst" to you?

In our case, there are a couple of defining characteristics of what makes a game "Myst." One of these is the ray-traced graphics. I understand that this is not possible in a full 3D environment. I chose NOT to linger on this in the article because I know how heated people can get about this. But for those who want to wave realMyst around, let me point out that counting it and Myst Masterpiece there have been three different versions of the original Myst released and a total of five games in the franchise before URU came out. All but one of them has featured the same style of ray-traced graphics! The 3D environment of URU is gorgeous, but not what 4 out of 5 Myst games have given us. So is it fair to say that this attribute is valid as one of Myst's defining characteristics? I say yes.

The other defining characteristic for many people is the complete lack of timed/action/death sequences. According to Trep's own quote, the Millers envisioned a world "without even an ounce of worry about dying or dealing with any kind of threat at all." URU does not fit the bill. It is quite easy to "die." (Technically you don't die. While falling into the chasm/lava/river you "panic link" back to the Relto Age. However, this has the same effect as dying: you have to start back from your home base and travel back to where you were before you died. A difference that makes no difference is no difference.) And in some areas, the emphasis is NOT on brain-puzzles but on coordination and running/jumping skills. Again, by the definition of many fans who were drawn to the Myst games specifically because there were no threatening or action sequences, this attribute does not fit the definition of "Myst."

In my opinion, Trep, though critical, got it right. No, URU isn't Myst. It is something different. Whether it is better than Myst or not is up to individual tastes.

Note that I did say that we were enjoying the game a lot.

[Jackal]

Oh, puhleeeeze.

Get over the persecution complex, dude. You're representing AG on a major game release, and I raised valid points. Deal with it.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Garyos

Did you find that out by trial and error? Because if you did you just didn't find the additional clue to solve the puzzle, where you need to know the numbering of the plates to understand it.

EDIT: And if you don't understand how it works, you won't be able to return there later, until you DO use the map and the other hint to decipher the system.

Could you explain yourself better? I havent played Uru yet, but based on Jim's experience with that puzzle, I'm curious as to what you're referring to.

[Garyos]

Originally Posted by Jake

Could you explain yourself better? I havent played Uru yet, but based on Jim's experience with that puzzle, I'm curious as to what you're referring to.

Okay, sorry for that. It was squarely directed at Jim, who's played the game, and I dunno if even he understood me.
What I mean is that it is possible to solve this puzzle by pure trial and error (I did the first time too), and you don't really know it until you try it again and it doesn't work. You need the aforementioned map PLUS another visual clue (which I assume Jim didn't find) to know exactly how the puzzle works.