[Jazhara7]

So, at Christmas, my parents promised me a new Computer.

And I thought it would be best, if it was one that fits me. So I thought, I should build it myself. But I have never built a computer, and don't really know what I need for a computer (I think a Motherboard would be nice... ).

Can you advice me on what I would need to run future games (mostly Adventure Games...and some RPGs), and won't have to worry too much that my computer will be too outdated in a month?

Also, does anybody know if there is a page similar to Newegg.com, but a Europe based one?

Thankies in advance.

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[samIamsad]

I'd like to, but I haven't bought a new machine since 1994... The magic word: Upgrading. Again. And again. And again. Oh, what a vicious cycle.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by samIamsad

I'd like to, but I haven't bought a new machine since 1994... The magic word: Upgrading. Again. And again. And again. Oh, what a vicious cycle.

Yeah, but for that I would need to know what I should upgrade of it.


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[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

Yeah, but for that I would need to know what I should upgrade of it.

If it's too outdated it's better to by a new machine.. Though I never did it () and hardly ever owned top of the line stuff. Currently, it's a system with an XP2200+ processor, a Geforce4ti graphics card, 768 MB of sloooow SD RAM, and a tiny 40 gig hard drive. I'm still fine with it for most of the time.

[RLacey]

It really depends on your budget and the type of RPGs you want to play. If you're after Diablo 2, go with something cheap, but if you want to play The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion then it's time to fork out the cash for a 64-bit Athlon processor, at least 1Gb RAM and a PCI-Express graphics card.

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by RLacey

It really depends on your budget

Or her parents' budget. Personally, I'd never upgrade my machine for a game, and espcecially not for a game that is said to be on shelves in half a year or something. Like all the Doom³ geeks did four years ago when they bought their Geforce3 toasters for 450 Euros, only to realize that it didn't handle the game that well, when it finally got released three years later.

[Talas]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

And I thought it would be best, if it was one that fits me. So I thought, I should build it myself. But I have never built a computer, and don't really know what I need for a computer (I think a Motherboard would be nice... ).

Let's see, I have some experience building PCs so here we go. I'm not going to consider your budget because Christmas is still some months away and prices change very quickly.

First, you'll have to ask yourself what kind of CPU you want. Basically, most people will be well served with an AMD chip; it'll run a lot cooler, draw less power, have a better upgrading path, and offer more balanced performance in almost all areas; excluding the traditional Intel leads like audio/video encoding, heavy multitasking and some 3D rendering, but most people just don't do that outside specialized work.

We have the brand, now we need the speed. Again, Christmas is seven months away, to analyze this, we will need to check the available CPUs at that time. Ask me about this later, ok?

Then we'll need the motherboard. Motherboards should be picked by socket type, so you should have a decent idea of what CPU you're going to go with at this point. The second criterion you should worry about is the chipset. Frankly, VIA/SIS/ULI offerings are okay, but if you have $100 to spend on a motherboard, you should really only bother with nVidia nForce 4 and Intel 915/925 chipsets on the AMD and Intel sides respectively. But then again, seven months

Now, we need the RAM. There are two types of RAM in circulation right now: DDR and DDR2. DDR2 is a bit more expensive and required on most Intel 915/925 motherboards, whereas DDR is still the standard on the AMD side. The performance difference between the two is non-existent with current processors, so you won't be missing out if you go with standard DDR. We'll have to check the bandwidth rates for the memory slots in the motherboard to select how many sticks you'll need. For example, both Intel and AMD systems use dual-channel RAM. This basically means using pairs of sticks to theoretically double memory bandwidth. If you're going to buy 1GB of RAM for instance, you should purchase two 512MB sticks, otherwise performance will be crippled somewhat. Seven months, arrrrggghhh

And then, we arrive to the graphic card. At this time, AGP is being phased out rather quickly, and AGP availability of next-generation cards remains to be seen, so you should go with a PCIe card at this point. Considering the PCIe 6600GT and X800XL are cheaper than the AGP equivalents, PCIe system is just better value anyway. To select a video card is imperative that you check the benchmarks relative to games, there are a lot of websites that are specialized in this topic. Please ask me about this later, new graphic cards come out faster than other PC components so we'll have to return to this in... yeah, seven months

In sound, most people will be happy with onboard sound these days, but if you have expensive speakers/headphones then onboard just isn't going to cut it. We'll se the available cards in seven months

For HDs, there's no real way to assess failure rate for consumer hard drives, so you should be picking something based on this factors: size, cost, warranty, performance, and noise output. Let's check this in seven months

If you just need to play DVDs/CDs and burn CDs, get a cheap Lite-On or whatever combo drive, it will work fine.

GET A GOOD POWER SUPPLY IN YOUR CASE. It doesn't matter if it's kind of ugly. At this point we are almost sure of all the parts we'll have in our PC, so we will have to do some math to select the adecuate PSU... in seven months

But, how do I put everything together? Building a PC from scratch is really pretty straightforward: just take it slow, do some reading beforehand, and you'll be very unlikely to screw up. Even if that happens, most decent on-line stores and manufacturers offer good warranties, so you definitely have a safety net if you get a bad part or break something... so don't blame me if it doesn't work, ok?

But J, come on, seven months... if you still need help then, you know where to find me, I only charge $20 the hour

[Jazhara7]

Thanks for all the advice Talas.

I am most probably only going to play the RPGs that I already have:

- Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
- Neverwinter Nights (+ Shadows of Underzeit)
- Icewind Dale & Baldur's Gate (I'm not really worried about those...they are pretty old.)

But I have some Adventures that don't work:

- EGYPT III
- The Legend of the Prophet and the Thief (or something like that)
- The Westerner
- Aztec
- Broken Sword III (am playing that on a Notebook...you hear that? A *NOTEBOOK* is better than my poor computer...)

Originally Posted by Talas

But J, come on, seven months... if you still need help then, you know where to find me, I only charge $20 the hour

Well...actually I was talking about last christmas...



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[Jazhara7]

*bump*


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[Talas]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

Well...actually I was talking about last christmas...

Oh

In that case please ignore all the "seven months" thing in my other post... thank you, now I’m going to give you some suggestions about what to look when you buy.

Let’s see, both AMD and Intel have two different socket types depending on CPU class. On the budget side (below $150), it's Socket 754 for AMD and Socket 478 for Intel. On the mid-range and high-end (above $150), it's Socket 939 for AMD and LGA775 for Intel. I'm going to focus on mid-range/high-end chips for now, since Socket 939/LGA775 hardware is reasonably cheap at this point and most people will be able to afford it.

If you're on a tight budget, you'll probably want to pick a cheap enough CPU in order to balance out your system: there's no sense going with a 3800+ if it means being stuck with 256MB of RAM and your old GeForce 3, for instance. As the graphs below show (Edit: I forgot them, I'll post them later if you want them), getting a more expensive CPU isn't always a good idea regardless of budget, since higher-end chips carry a very heavy premium and are in most cases not worth it.

I suggest you to go AMD, like I said before, if you are not going to do some specialized work then this brand of chip is the best option in my opinion. Here’s a good article that lists the most recent AMD CPUs , check them, it’s a good read, if you have any questions, just ask.

Oh, and if you're on a very tight budget, avoid AthlonXP or Socket A Semprons at all costs. Socket 754 Semprons and Athlon 64s can be had for below $150 and seriously outperform any AthlonXPs or Socket A Semprons you might find. If you have more than $150 to spend on a processor, however, go with Socket 939 or LGA775. The upgrade path on those will be much better (especially Socket 939).

For motherboards, I will explain a little more about slots. PCIe is a new, very fast serial interconnect set to replace both AGP and 32-bit PCI with new types of slots. PCIe is not backwards-compatible with either PCI or AGP, and it is currently being offered on all new nForce 4 and 915/925 motherboards. AGP is being phased out on the graphics side, and PCI will also be slowly replaced over time. Unless you have an existing AGP card that you want to keep, it makes a lot more sense to go with a PCIe system. Even if you're not a gamer, upcoming SATA/RAID controllers, soundcards and ethernet controllers will all benefit from PCIe, so you might as well jump in now.

Once you have the CPU you want, you have to coose from the compatible motherboards with the characteristics you want. They shouldn’t be a lot, just check them all and compare them.

RAM is not a problem, just check your motherboard manual for how to arrange the sticks in a dual-channel configuration. Note that you can buy two sticks from the same brand/type and they'll work fine in dual-channel mode, "dual-channel kits" are largely a marketing thing.

As for which sticks to buy, it's really pretty straightforward: unless you intend on overclocking big time (like some people I know), go with Value RAM from a major brand (Corsair, Crucial, Kingston, Mushkin, etc) and make sure it carries a lifetime warranty.

For video cards in the $150-300 PCIe segment, you should be looking at only these two cards (6600GT and X800XL), with maybe a cheap (<$130) 6600 or X700 Pro if your budget is really tight. Anything else is absolutely not worth it, and $400+ cards don't really offer a significant enough performance increase to justify the elevated cost. And even the cheap cards I just listed will work fine with the games you mentioned and most of the upcoming games this year.

Here are some benchmarks to measure the speed of a video card, just keep in mind that not all benchmarks there might be accurate, so only treat them as a curiosity.

For hardrives, the following lines come standard with 5-year warranties, so you should take a look to them:

Seagate Barracuda 7200.7/7200.8
Samsung Spinpoint P80
Maxtor MaxLine
Western Digital Raptor

A Power Supply Unit of 350W or 370W sould be more than enough, unless you want to use three hardrives, two DVD-drives and dual-video cards.

Lastly, if you're pricing out something and want to examine it at a later date, use C4. You can save configurations there, link them, and it'll compute the total prices for you. It takes the prices from NewEgg.com, but they usually are not that different in other places. It’s really cool.

Good luck with your new PC, I'll be around if you have more questions

[Elton28]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

Thanks for all the advice Talas.

I am most probably only going to play the RPGs that I already have:

- Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
- Neverwinter Nights (+ Shadows of Underzeit)
- Icewind Dale & Baldur's Gate (I'm not really worried about those...they are pretty old.)

But I have some Adventures that don't work:

- EGYPT III
- The Legend of the Prophet and the Thief (or something like that)
- The Westerner
- Aztec
- Broken Sword III (am playing that on a Notebook...you hear that? A *NOTEBOOK* is better than my poor computer...)




Well...actually I was talking about last christmas...



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Well tbh Jaz, the Icewind Dale series can be pretty taxing on a system graphically. I have a fast system, but these games do struggle sometimes, because of all the intense 2D sprite rendering and animations. Even with high details off, it can still cause slow downs. But you know what these series are like with the silly amounts of enemies on screen at once That reminds me, I must get back to Severed Hand...

The games that don't work? I am guessing this is an XP problem? If so, you could always do a dual boot, with the older or problem games installed on the older OS. Or alternatively, you could run Win2k as a sole installation. Same file system as XP, but I have found it'll run just about any game you can throw at it, especially old ones. Even though I run XP, I just find Win2k is painfully slow on boot up.

For very well priced components I recommend:

http://www.aria.co.uk/

I get all my PC stuff from this site. It's the best site in the UK IMO for stuff, as it's often the cheapest and standards of service are excellent.

Let us all know how you get on.

Elt

[Jazhara7]

Thanks, both of you. I will try that.

Originally Posted by Elton28

The games that don't work? I am guessing this is an XP problem? If so, you could always do a dual boot, with the older or problem games installed on the older OS. Or alternatively, you could run Win2k as a sole installation. Same file system as XP, but I have found it'll run just about any game you can throw at it, especially old ones. Even though I run XP, I just find Win2k is painfully slow on boot up.

Well, actually it is not an XP problem: Broken Sword III works fine on my father's notebook, and he got WinXP Home Edition.

Also, they are pretty recent. Released in last year, mostly. (don't know about "The Legend of the Prophet and the Assassin*")



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* I didn't make a mistake in my first post! He...um...got promoted!

[RLacey]

I take it you've done the usual driver updating and so on to try and get games like BS3 to work?

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by RLacey

I take it you've done the usual driver updating and so on to try and get games like BS3 to work?

My dear Laceysie, my drivers have not been outdated since the de-installing of "FinFin (on Teo)" had apparently deleted Direct X, and I had to install "The Settlers III" (which was new back then), to get an up to date version again.

My computer is simply too slow, but we knew that - I got it used from my father's office (which is actually below my room...office sounds so far away)

I only take a long time to update Quicktime on my computer...I'm a bit lazy about that.


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[RLacey]

Steal one from somewhere.

[Talas]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

My computer is simply too slow, but we knew that - I got it used from my father's office (which is actually below my room...office sounds so far away)

And what are the current specs in your PC? If you don't mind my question

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by Talas

And what are the current specs in your PC? If you don't mind my question

Argh, I don't mind that question, but I hate it. I never know where to look the stuff up.

Okay, Pentium II Processor, 398 MHz, 192 MB RAM.

ATI Graphic card (3D RAGE PRO AGP 2X)

And I am not sure which of those on the list is my soundcard...


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[Talas]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

Argh, I don't mind that question, but I hate it. I never know where to look the stuff up.

Okay, Pentium II Processor, 398 MHz, 192 MB RAM.

ATI Graphic card (3D RAGE PRO AGP 2X)

And I am not sure which of those on the list is my soundcard...

Errr, the minimum CPU specification for Broken Sword III is a Pentium III 750 Mhz, so I guess that's the problem

It is certainly time for a new PC. Again, good luck and don't worry about the assembling, it's easier than it sounds.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by Talas

Errr, the minimum CPU specification for Broken Sword III is a Pentium III 750 Mhz, so I guess that's the problem

I know - well, I managed to start it, but it was very wobbly, and it hanged up completely, once I opened the menu again.


But apparently I have a very fast Internet connection. Everytime I mention it, people ask me if I mistyped it, or something.

Do you think this is fast: 11,0 MBit/s ?


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[Talas]

Originally Posted by Jazhara7

Do you think this is fast: 11,0 MBit/s ?

¡Santa madre de Dios! O_O ... errr, yes, I do... I think it's fast... very fast.

Could you give me a quarter of your bandwidth? I promise I'll give it a good use