Let's start a flame war: Does this world exst?

Wormsie · 06-21-2004, 11:22 PM

Because it is entirely acceptable to believe that we don't really exist (OR IS IT?!?!?), I'm starting this tell-all poll.

I made the question a bit too broad, perhaps, but what the heck.

And here's a fire extinguisher:

remixor · 06-22-2004, 12:59 AM

Flame war?

Melkor · 06-22-2004, 01:18 AM

The poll results are intriguing

nordic_guy · 06-22-2004, 03:06 AM

I have a new thing for voting *other*...

Zanthia · 06-22-2004, 04:28 AM

Cogito ergo sum

mag · 06-22-2004, 06:44 AM

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is deadworm's way of making fun of me?

mag

jjacob · 06-22-2004, 08:37 PM

I wonder if that 50% for "It's impossible to know." was influenced by the Matrix or Plato

Glenn Epic · 06-22-2004, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjacob

I wonder if that 50% for "It's impossible to know." was influenced by the Matrix or Plato

I have a feeling this is going to get ugly

Kingzjester · 06-22-2004, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mag

Why do I get the feeling that this thread is deadworm's way of making fun of me?

mag

You ****ing deserve it! Go read some actual philosophy and neurophisiology.

Kingzjester · 06-22-2004, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

You ****ing deserve it! Go read some actual philosophy and neurophisiology.

Since WHEN do we censor curses here? Whose marvellous idea was this?!

100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja · 06-22-2004, 11:26 PM

Nah, it doesn't exist! It's just God vs. Devil playing SIms Online

Maquisard · 06-23-2004, 12:00 AM

Hey, since when can you see who voted for what?

mag · 06-23-2004, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

You ****ing deserve it! Go read some actual philosophy and neurophisiology.

You first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mares

Hey, since when can you see who voted for what?

Since you click the option to make the results public.

As for the question that was asked, of course you can never know. Since it's the existence of the universe that's in question, you can't trust somebody who is a part of that universe (like us) to be able to test it accurately. And since you can't very well step outside the universe to test it, there's no way of knowing.

I would be very interested in seeing how those who said, "Of course it exists!" can prove such a statement.

mag

Erkki · 06-23-2004, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mag

I would be very interested in seeing how those who said, "Of course it exists!" can prove such a statement.

First define existence. How would you define it in such a way that would leave an option for us to not exist?

***Jackal*** · 06-23-2004, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mag

I would be very interested in seeing how those who said, "Of course it exists!" can prove such a statement.

It must exist in one form or another, or we wouldn't be discussing it. It can't be experienced unless it existed on some level. There weren't conditions placed on the poll option (ie. physical form, natural laws, etc.) Even the world of the Matrix "existed". It just wasn't a physical one (or the only one).

Of course, if the world only existed in my mind, then mag would stop turning everything into an irrelevant abstraction.

So that rules THAT possibility out.

Kingzjester · 06-23-2004, 06:38 AM

The next person who mentions The Matrix in a philosophical context I will shoot in the kneecap with extreme prejudice.

mag · 06-23-2004, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal

It must exist in one form or another, or we wouldn't be discussing it. It can't be experienced unless it existed on some level.

But how do you know we are discussing it? For all you know this whole forum is just an illusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal

Of course, if the world only existed in my mind, then mag would stop turning everything into an irrelevant abstraction.

So that rules THAT possibility out.

Or maybe I'm not real at all. Maybe I'm just a representation of your own guilty self loathing you've dreamed up to punish yourself.

mag

***Jackal*** · 06-23-2004, 06:52 AM

And? How does that invalidate what I said? Even an illusion must "exist" in some form or another. That was my entire point.

Kingz: Matrix (I'm legless)

mag · 06-23-2004, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal

And? How does that invalidate what I said? Even an illusion must "exist" in some form or another. That was my entire point.

An illusion doesn't exist. That's what it means to be an illusion.

The surest thing you can say is that you exist as some thinking thing. And even that is difficult to prove. But let's assume that's true. Are you the entire universe? That's quite an ego.

mag

***Jackal*** · 06-23-2004, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mag

An illusion doesn't exist.

An illusion certainly DOES exist, as does a dream or hallucination - they just don't exist by the standards you've decided to authoritatively impose. As I said, the poll didn't assert those. If it said "Does the world exist in measurable, physical, empirical qualities", my answer would be quite different.

And again you've got me completely backwards. I said nothing even remotely like "I exist as a thinking thing", because that I CAN'T know.

EDIT: So as not to quibble over multiple definitions, an "illusion" in the sense of a magician's slight of hand could be deemed not to exist. But that obviously isn't the context it's being used in here.

View Poll Results: Does this world exist?
Of course it exists!	16	44.44%
Nah, it doesn't exist.	1	2.78%
It's impossible to know.	13	36.11%
Other	6	16.67%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

06-21-2004, 11:22 PM	#1
Wormsie Doctor Watson Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Catacombs Posts: 4,736	Let's start a flame war: Does this world exst? Because it is entirely acceptable to believe that we don't really exist (OR IS IT?!?!?), I'm starting this tell-all poll. I made the question a bit too broad, perhaps, but what the heck. And here's a fire extinguisher: Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Don't worry, I'm a doctor.

06-22-2004, 12:59 AM	#2
remixor A search for a crazy man! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 3,987	Flame war? Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ Chris "News Editor" Remo Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs "Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

06-22-2004, 01:18 AM	#3
Melkor Evil Incarnate Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Around Posts: 255	The poll results are intriguing Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ "When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I've never tried before."

06-22-2004, 03:06 AM	#4
nordic_guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 1,081	I have a new thing for voting other... Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ If I wasn't just spamming this thread, I'd probably have something interesting to say.

06-22-2004, 04:28 AM	#5
Zanthia Sky is not the limit Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Kyrandia Posts: 1,496	Cogito ergo sum Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ RUBY + EXOTIC FLOWER = RED POTION TOPAZ + TULIP = YELLOW POTION RED POTION + YELLOW POTION= ORANGE POTION

06-22-2004, 06:44 AM	#6
mag Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,913	Why do I get the feeling that this thread is deadworm's way of making fun of me? mag Share Share this post on Twitter

06-22-2004, 08:37 PM	#7
jjacob Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,771	I wonder if that 50% for "It's impossible to know." was influenced by the Matrix or Plato Share Share this post on Twitter

06-22-2004, 11:26 PM	#11
100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja pain is love Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 1,348	Nah, it doesn't exist! It's just God vs. Devil playing SIms Online Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields There are more old drunks then old doctors. - Willie Nelson by_100ja

06-23-2004, 12:00 AM	#12
Maquisard Citizen of Bizarro World Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Htrae Posts: 4,219	Hey, since when can you see who voted for what? Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ By no rocket’s blue shade am no shells dead down there, Gave no proof all day long that the flag was unwhere! No say does am spar-strangled shroud hang limply! Under land of no free! Am us home coward-leeee! ~Excerpt from the Bizarro Anthem

06-23-2004, 06:38 AM	#16
Kingzjester Tactlessly understated Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Niceshire Posts: 2,045	The next person who mentions The Matrix in a philosophical context I will shoot in the kneecap with extreme prejudice. Share Share this post on Twitter

06-23-2004, 06:52 AM	#18
*Jackal* Hopeful skeptic Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 7,743	And? How does that invalidate what I said? Even an illusion must "exist" in some form or another. That was my entire point. Kingz: Matrix (I'm legless) Share Share this post on Twitter

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