[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by deadworm222

JUST LOOK WHAT JANE JENSEN IS WORTHY OF TODAY! She can't even get her stuff published, except for some silly, pathetic game called *short, dramatic pause* BeTrapped!

Aye.

Well,

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.



Now,

go away or I shall taunt you a second time.

[mag]

Originally Posted by deadworm222

JUST LOOK WHAT JANE JENSEN IS WORTHY OF TODAY! She can't even get her stuff published, except for some silly, pathetic game called *short, dramatic pause* BeTrapped!

I'm sorry. How long has Psychonauts been in development?

mag

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by mag

I'm sorry. How long has Psychonauts been in development?

mag

OOOOh! OOOOOH! That is like so very hurtful to me! Ow! OW! A low blow if I ever saw one! It hurtsssss usss, it hurrrrtssss usssss!!

Spoiler:

Man, I come back for two days and am already reminded why I ran away in the first place.

At least it is in development and we can be sure the whole art direction and presentation of this game will be more awesome and polished than anything Jane Jensen ever done do.

[Jackal]

Tim isn't MAKING Psychonauts; he's leading and guiding mere mortals to do so. He voluntarily accepts the limitations of humans as part of his larger inscrutable plans.

As for what's taking THEM so long, well... it simply takes a while to make a lavish, multi-platform production. I'm sure it would be much faster making a chintzy game circa 1990, without such things as... oh, say... speech.

[Wormsie]

We all know BeTrapped is a minesweeper clone. Perhaps a Sherlock Holmes quotation appears as the Message of the Day when you start it...

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by deadworm222

We all know BeTrapped is a minesweeper clone. Perhaps a Sherlock Holmes quotation appears as the Message of the Day when you start it...

Well, your hemorrhoids are flaring up again, eh?

Sorry about that but I'm playing MI for the first time and insult sword fighting is giving me all kinds of fits. I've been at it for more than an hour now and still can't get past it!

[Wormsie]

I found the insult swordfighting in MI1 a lot easier than in CMI.

And this was even without the cheat card downloaded from the Scummbar.

[edlglide]

I don't think anyone can give Tim Schafer credit for Monkey Island 1 and 2......sure he helped out with the game, but it wasn't his design. We should only give people full credit for stuff that was their idea in the first place.

I voted for option 3. Since none of the Gabriel Knight games are the best adventure game ever released by Sierra, I don't see how Jane Jensen could possibly get my vote. King's Quest 6 is the best adventure game released by Sierra.........so if she can't even make the best game from her own company, she certainly can't get a vote for my god. Or goddess.

As for Tim Schafer........well........I suppose I could have voted for him, but I just wanted to be different.

EDIT: Well well well. Don't I feel silly. Talking about King's Quest 6 made me want to replay it, so I loaded it up today -- and found out that Jane Jensen co-wrote and co-designed the game with Roberta Williams. So she WAS involved in the best adventure game released by Sierra.

[remixor]

Of course, according to you, she shouldn't get credit because it wasn't her "idea in the first place". Of course, King's Quest is not really an original idea at all, the whole point is that it's a tried-and-true cliche fantasy world. Also, Ron Gilbert credits Tim Schafer with coming up with many of the best parts of Monkey Island 1 and 2. Just because someone isn't the project lead or lead designer doesn't mean they don't deserve credit.

[edlglide]

Originally Posted by remixor

Of course, according to you, she shouldn't get credit because it wasn't her "idea in the first place". Of course, King's Quest is not really an original idea at all, the whole point is that it's a tried-and-true cliche fantasy world. Also, Ron Gilbert credits Tim Schafer with coming up with many of the best parts of Monkey Island 1 and 2. Just because someone isn't the project lead or lead designer doesn't mean they don't deserve credit.

Quite a few of the adventure games we like aren't really original ideas. The Monkey Island games aren't an original idea by that criteria -- Ron Gilbert says the characters were based on a book. Irregardless, what I meant was that they don't deserve credit for creating the game.......which is what the argument was here. You wouldn't call someone a game design god for doing artwork. Tim Schafer wrote some of the script, and Gilbert says he wrote some of the best parts (like Stan) but it was still Gilbert's idea. To me it's sort of like crediting Lawrence Kasdan for Empire Strikes Back even though he wrote the script to George Lucas' story. He deserves credit for writing a great script, but not for creating the world itself. It's still Lucas' vision and world.

I never said they don't deserve partial credit for the game, just not credit for coming up with the idea and seeing it implemented how they wanted. Tim Schafer deserves that sort of credit for Grim Fandango, but not for MI 1 and 2.

Also, as far as King's Quest goes..........there is an underlying story involving the Society of the Black Cloak which shows up repeatedly. I wish they'd drawn a conclusion to all of that with a final game before dropping the series.

[remixor]

You're reading far too much into the poll. It's a simple preference question. A designer is someone who designs games in any capacity, and if he or she is a particularly good designer, he or she can have a positive effect on a game that he or she did not personally "design". A good example of this is Tim Schafer on MI1 and MI2, and Jane Jensen on KQ6. Those games were not "their projects", but as skilled designers they used their ideas to come up with compelling puzzles, plotlines, and/or characters, which are the fundamental design aspects of adventure games, and you haven't given any good reason why that shouldn't reflect positively on them. If I think Tim Schafer made good design contributions to the MI games, why shouldn't I give him credit for that? Since when do you have to "create a world" to be a good designer? With that logic, a designer of a licensed game could never be a good designer since they didn't "create the world". Of course, good movie-license games (to use a Star Wars example, KOTOR) have skilled designers behind them deserving of credit for contributing good design work.

[edlglide]

Originally Posted by remixor

You're reading far too much into the poll. It's a simple preference question. A designer is someone who designs games in any capacity, and if he or she is a particularly good designer, he or she can have a positive effect on a game that he or she did not personally "design". A good example of this is Tim Schafer on MI1 and MI2, and Jane Jensen on KQ6. Those games were not "their projects", but as skilled designers they used their ideas to come up with compelling puzzles, plotlines, and/or characters, which are the fundamental design aspects of adventure games, and you haven't given any good reason why that shouldn't reflect positively on them. If I think Tim Schafer made good design contributions to the MI games, why shouldn't I give him credit for that? Since when do you have to "create a world" to be a good designer? With that logic, a designer of a licensed game could never be a good designer since they didn't "create the world". Of course, good movie-license games (to use a Star Wars example, KOTOR) have skilled designers behind them deserving of credit for contributing good design work.

No no.....you're reading too much into what -I- said. I'll repeat myself.........I didn't say they don't deserve credit. I'm just saying that the person who is actually in charge of the game deserves the most credit. Roberta Williams and Jane Jensen were both in charge of KQ6, so they deserve the same amount of credit. They're the ones who make sure everything that everyone else contributes fits in the proper manner, and that it all works out the way it should. And it doesn't remove movie-license games at all -- just because they are working with an already created world doesn't mean they aren't in charge of creating their own story within that world. Especially a game like KOTOR, which doesn't really have much connection to the movies.

[remixor]

I sort of agree with what you're saying now, but I think it's a very different point than you were making before. If you believe contributors should get credit (even if it's not full credit) why did you even bring it up before? Clearly Schafer is not solely responsible for MI1 and 2 but including them in his list of games is perfectly reasonable as he had a significant hand in their design.

[edlglide]

Originally Posted by remixor

I sort of agree with what you're saying now, but I think it's a very different point than you were making before. If you believe contributors should get credit (even if it's not full credit) why did you even bring it up before? Clearly Schafer is not solely responsible for MI1 and 2 but including them in his list of games is perfectly reasonable as he had a significant hand in their design.

I think I just didn't articulate my thoughts very well in my first post.

[Erwin_Br]

Jensen VS Schafer = BeTrapped VS Psychonauts.

--Erwin

[Mattsius]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Jensen VS Schafer = BeTrapped VS Psychonauts.

When you put it that way...

[Kolorabi]

You people are all insane. Every last one of you. Galway is God.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Jensen VS Schafer = BeTrapped VS Psychonauts.

Well, considering that BeTrapped is a game that is finished and actually exists as a whole, I think it has a litte bit of an edge over Psychonauts.

mag

[Jackal]

As a whole? You must not have played it. Most players are asking "where's the rest"?

In fact, I'm actually feeling a little like schoolyard bully siding with Schafer now. Really we should be picking on someone our own size.

[Skinkie]

Originally Posted by Jackal

As a whole? You must not have played it. Most players are asking "where's the rest"?

In fact, I'm actually feeling a little like schoolyard bully siding with Schafer now. Really we should be picking on someone our own size.

So like Pychonaughts vs. Dreamfall?