[Dasilva]

Quoted from a newspaper in the UK The Guardian. August 31, 2005.

Peterborough's Cathedral Square yesterday afternoon. The scene of regular standoffs between gangs of marauding chavs and goths. Apart from the patter of shoppers' feet on hot paving stones, it's quiet, too quiet.

Ten miles away, at a secret location in the Cambridgeshire countryside, it is a different story. Startled wood pigeons crash through the trees at the sound of plastic ball bearing guns as the city's chavs and goths run through the undergrowth taking pot shots at each other.

War games do not appear the most obvious way to bring together these teenage tribes, as distinctive and implacably opposed to each other as the mods and rockers of the 1960s. But Peterborough city council is hoping that a new scheme, in which they take unruly chavs and goths on "airsoft" war games, will bring a truce to the trouble in Cathedral Square.

Fourteen male and female chavs and goths yesterday swapped fake Burberry and Marilyn Manson T-shirts for camouflage to take part in the first of the airsoft games, which is similar to paintballing but uses ball bearing - BB - guns firing plastic balls.

The voluntary scheme has been organised by the city's street wardens with the blessing of the local police. The street wardens were introduced three years ago to tackle antisocial behaviour and petty street crime but have found the antagonism between chavs and goths difficult to quell.

The gangs have attracted complaints of underage drinking, violence, vandalism, graffiti and littering. Police have also received a spate of calls from members of the public terrified by teenagers firing the frighteningly realistic-looking BB guns at each other on the streets.

Kitted out in black body armour and chomping on a large cigar, Steve Mayes, the street warden supervisor, looks more than a match for any mouthy chav or stoned goth. But he's found both groups showing scant regard for him, each other or society, and hopes that skirmishes in the countryside will instil respect.

"We've had large groups of chavs and goths on Cathedral Square on a Saturday. They've not really being doing any harm but the sheer number of them intimidates people," he said. "It's like mods and rockers - not that these guys start fighting, it's just a bit of a slap here and there."

The few goths who still walk across the square by the city's Norman cathedral are not so sure. War games in the countryside? "That's going to be murder," said Kenny, 19, resplendent in his daywear of black boots, black jeans, black shirt and long black leather jacket (it's sunny and 25C). "The chavs will take knives."

Kenny admits he was once a "borderline" chav but got in with skaters, punks and then goths. Black is his daywear but for gigs he'll don black eyeliner and black nail varnish. Apart from clothes and music, the difference between the groups is attitude, according to Kenny.

He points out a chav, swaggering through the square on the toes of his immaculate white trainers. "Most goths are so laid-back they are on their arse," he said. "If you go up to a chav and look at him wrong, he'll kick your head in."

A piercing scream cuts through the quiet of the countryside as a chav receives a buttfull of plastic ball bearings. The bonding between the two groups is proceeding apace and organisers swear that the teams have not simply divided down chav/goth lines.

But Mr Mayes admits there is one small problem: most of the goths were so laid-back they couldn't get up in time for the war games. Six cried off yesterday morning. "We've got more chavs than we have goths because they couldn't get out of bed," he said. "They've probably been smoking too much pot."

"Chris just unloaded a clip on me," yells one chav, clutching his backside in mock pain as he enters the "dead zone", where those who are shot during the game must recuperate for five minutes. "I shot you about five times, man," bragged another chav.

"They call me a chav," said Craig Jones, 22. He doesn't mind. "It's a bit of laugh. I think they mean Orton boy, which is an area in Peterborough which has graffiti all over the place so people think it's a bit dingy."

He finds the joy of the war game a welcome relief from the tedium of sitting in Cathedral Square. "I hang around with mates having a giggle, having a laugh. There's not much to do. Because we hang about in big groups separate from one another people think there's trouble and it's intimidating. With a big group of lads, grannies think they're going to rob their handbags."

But he insists that far from gang warfare, the chav-goth tension in Peterborough is like anywhere in the country, it is simply "friendly banter".

Mr Mayes says the voluntary scheme, in which chavs and goths pay a reduced rate subsidised by a local company, is not rewarding bad behaviour. Teenagers brandishing BB guns in town has been a problem, but the scheme teaches youngsters that the realistic-looking weapons hurt and should only be used in safe "game" situations.

"These guys here are well-behaved kids. All they've done is stand in large groups. They say: 'I hang about on the square because I haven't got anything else to do, innit?'"

Mr Mayes believes the games will give the two groups something to do and get them talking to each other. "It gets rid of that pent-up energy that teenagers don't seem to get rid of these days when they are sitting around on their Playstations and Xboxes," he said.

The council hopes a new spirit of mutual respect will extend to all their employees. As well as the orange-clad street wardens, there is even a council parking attendant sportingly allowing young chavs and goths to take pot shots at him. "When they see us now it's not going to be 'oh those bloody tango wardens'," said Mr Mayes. "They now know who I am."

Whether skinny goths can be persuaded out of their beds for some bracing outdoor activity with their chav foes remains to be seen. But the council wardens believe the airsoft games, which they hope to hold every half-term, will spread via word of mouth, bringing the two tribes together in war - and bringing peace to Cathedral Square.

"It's like football," said Denise Mee, another street warden. "You pick which team you belong to. But ultimately the chavs and the goths are the same sort of people, so the idea is to get them together. When they first came they were in little groups but already there's more togetherness."

What do you guys think about this war thats been going on between chavs and goths? Who do you think is wrong? Whos team are you on? Do you wish Goths and chavs got along? Do you think chavs should lay off crime? Do you think they should all join one league? You decide, talk away...

[SakSquash]

I think anyone who acts violently should be locked away. I don't know why the UK police don't do more than just sit around being glad that it's not happening in the streets. They should be busting these twats left and right.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by temporaryscars

I think anyone who acts violently should be locked away. I don't know why the UK police don't do more than just sit around being glad that it's not happening in the streets. They should be busting these twats left and right.

That is extremely true, because the police do nothing about it, people dont really care because the police in the UK dont do anything. I mean, people here get cuts and get badly hurt due to chavs mostly (I've never heard of a goth that acts like a chav and annoys people and hurts people.) I know many goths and they're all fantastic and fun people. I love goths. lol So far every chav I've met hasent impressed me.

But the borrum line is to the poilce, they need to sort it out.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

What do you guys think about this war thats been going on between chavs and goths?

Jump in.


XBOX 360

[Dasilva]

"Before we find world peace, we gotta find peace and end the war in the streets"

Like that actually applies to these little bastards.


I think this is just a stupid little fight between two extremly inane culture fads and police need to teach these little punks who think they have something to prove a lesson. And anyone who actually get attacked by these little shits needs to have some form protection with them at all times and use it any times necessary.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

"Before we find world peace, we gotta find peace and end the war in the streets"

Like that actually applies to these little bastards.


I think this is just a stupid little fight between two extremly inane culture fads and police need to teach these little punks who think they have something to prove a lesson. And anyone who actually get attacked by these little shits needs to have some form protection with them at all times and use it any times necessary.

Cops cant do anything because guns are banned in the UK, but thats a different subject. I mean kids here mock the police and just run off, they cant catch them because the policemen here are chubby and look like they are street sweepers. I mean the only defence a cop in the UK would have is a little stick and some pepper spray.

Pretty scewed view on your law enforcment, there.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

http://my.opera.com/Aedan/homes/files/old_forum_import/confused.png

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/...?autoplay=true

[Dasilva]

lol, thats funny. Why the hell do these adverts get banned?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

"Please! I'm unarmed and defenseless!"

Because kittens might get hurt.

[stuboy]

Cops cant do anything because guns are banned in the UK, but thats a different subject.

WTF? Cops can carry guns, but don'y routinely need to, mainly because guns are banned in the UK, unlike the US, where you are still allowed to have an AK "for hunting purposes" because of the c**** in the gun lobby. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this. High school shootings in UK = 0; in the US = countless. Both have social problems, videogames and Marilyn Manson but there's one bigass variable that most media spin seems to ignore.

Uh-huh. What about parents, huh?

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by stuboy

WTF? Cops can carry guns, but don'y routinely need to, mainly because guns are banned in the UK, unlike the US, where you are still allowed to have an AK "for hunting purposes" because of the c**** in the gun lobby. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this. High school shootings in UK = 0; in the US = countless. Both have social problems, videogames and Marilyn Manson but there's one bigass variable that most media spin seems to ignore.

Thats true, but that means the police can't even carry guns, so now they use these wooden sticks.

[squarejawhero]

Police do carry guns in the UK and do enforce the law. Only yesterday did I see two police vans with coppers searching a group of teenagers just down the road from me, and believe me, these kids are SE London kids, so it's not overkill. We've got a lot of gang/gun/knife/drug violence in the teenage contingent down this way.

I'm saying this as you're proffering a slightly skewed view of the UK police which isn't true. If anything they're continuously being accused of being heavy handed. Besides, it depends which district it is where this occured, the readiness of that district force and their experience in this area.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Police do carry guns in the UK and do enforce the law. Only yesterday did I see two police vans with coppers searching a group of teenagers just down the road from me, and believe me, these kids are SE London kids, so it's not overkill. We've got a lot of gang/gun/knife/drug violence in the teenage contingent down this way.

I'm saying this as you're proffering a slightly skewed view of the UK police which isn't true. If anything they're continuously being accused of being heavy handed. Besides, it depends which district it is where this occured, the readiness of that district force and their experience in this area.

Maybe I just live in the nice area.

[Aj_]

Originally Posted by stuboy

WTF? Cops can carry guns, but don'y routinely need to, mainly because guns are banned in the UK, unlike the US, where you are still allowed to have an AK "for hunting purposes" because of the c**** in the gun lobby. Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this. High school shootings in UK = 0; in the US = countless. Both have social problems, videogames and Marilyn Manson but there's one bigass variable that most media spin seems to ignore.

That's completely true, it wasn't a child, but there was a famous shooting. I agree with the sentiment though.

[Karmillo]

I thought it was only the Special force or something that got to carry the guns? The guys who get sent in if it looks like guns are needed.
Ive never seen any patroling police ever carry a gun

[seebaruk]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

I thought it was only the Special force or something that got to carry the guns? The guys who get sent in if it looks like guns are needed.
Ive never seen any patroling police ever carry a gun

Yep, normal patrol officers only carry truncheons.

I think that instead of chavs v goths in a plastic bb gun war, they should bring back hunting but with chavs instead of foxes. Everyone in the UK can gather together in some big open field, then we let the chavs go, give them a 10 second head start, then blow them away with rocket launchers and railguns.

Think I've been playing too much Quake 4 lately.

[Dasilva]

What do you do when your in the middle of a field full of dead chavs?

Reload and Laugh.


I couldent resist, but it is true that the chavs are the ones that start trouble.