[Len Green]

P.S. I have just this minute noticed that Dave Gilbert has written a pretty positive review on AdventureGamers/Underground (http://www.adventuregamers.com/underground/).

Probably there remain just a few antiquated dinosaurs (like me ):-
****** Who are not overthrilled by lots of jumping, climbing, shimmying, etc. &/or keyboard controls ………
****** Who still prefer old fashioned 3rd person mouse driven point & click simple interfaces ………
****** Who are not TOO worried if the graphics are not the most modern, but are more interested in a narrative and reasonable puzzles ………

********** FOR SUCH AS THE ABOVE :- **********
"5 Days a Stranger" (http://www.agsforums.com/games.php?category=6) is a Freeware game, made by one of the Indie ‘veterans’ of the AGS (Adventure Game Studio) … Ben (Yahtzee) Croshaw. It’s a sort of whodunit with a supernatural element woven in.

It’s a 3rd person mouse driven point & click game with a very simple interface. It’s only medium length (just a very few hours relaxation), with puzzles that are not difficult (but not a total walkover either). A detailed walkthrough has been posted HERE (http://www.gameboomers.com/wtcheats/...sastranger.htm).
It has a good story & narrative but no speech, only (excellent) subtitles. The graphics are very good … for Indie-AGS games.

The download is only 1¼ MB … particularly good for those with slow modems.
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Posts: 747 | Registered: Aug 2000 | IP: Logged

[Len Green]

Is it against the rules to spread the word generally about a good Freeware game?

Other Sites don't seem to think so !!

[tabacco]

Um... I don't anyone said anything.

[Stinger]

Threads about Underground games go in the Underground forum, Len. Commercial adventures get discussed in the main forum. No one said anything about not spreading the word.

- Evan

[Len Green]

Originally Posted by Stinger

Threads about Underground games go in the Underground forum, Len. Commercial adventures get discussed in the main forum. No one said anything about not spreading the word. ----- Evan

Seems there's been a misunderstanding ... or maybe a difference of opinion.
******** I thought the Underground (the title may give the false impression of illicit games or the like! :eek: ) was primarily if not exclusively for those talented folk who develop Indie games &/or are interested in same! Unfortunately, I am not one of these (although I DO do a lot of Indie testing & walkthrus) & IIRC I have never accessed this Forum before now.

A couple of points ......................................

***** When a post has been moved, I don't know to WHERE it's been moved! Is there any way of determining?

***** I believe that AdventureGamers is no less interested in 'promoting' Indie &/or Freeware games (especially when they are good ones!) than any of the other Quest/Adventure Forums.
I think that the great majority of players who are unaware of these games but only of 'commercial' games, visit your main Adventure Forum but (like me)not your 'Underground'.
~~~ e.g. I posted (almost) the same heads-up onto 4 other Q-A Forums about 1½ days ago. I see that about 20 people have downloaded the game and are playing it, and there have so far been around 150 hits ... quite a few of whom have probably also downloaded & played it!

I thought that AG would be no less enthusiastic ... maybe even more so!

Just my 2 cents, or 'p's, or whatever!

[Erwin_Br]

The description 'Underground' wouldn't be my first choice either, because it does sound like something illegal. But that's another discussion

Aaaanyway, the game's very good, but that was to be expected. I must confess I envy mr. Croshaw's writing and storytelling talents.

--Erwin

[Len Green]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Aaaanyway, the game's very good, but that was to be expected. I must confess I envy mr. Croshaw's writing and storytelling talents.
--Erwin

Hehehe! ... but what about your graphics ???
I don't know about your writing &/or storytelling talents (yet anyway ... it's, too early) but your screenshots are absolutely breathtaking!
(Not that this is intended to belittle Yahztee's in ANY way !!)

[Garyos]

Len, if you'd done a search , you'd see that 5 Days a Stranger is one of the most discussed Amateur Adventure at all on these forums....

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by Garyos

Len, if you'd done a search , you'd see that 5 Days a Stranger is one of the most discussed Amateur Adventure at all on these forums....

Yeah, but do you search for topics everytime before you start a thread? I know I don't. (Not that I have started many threads, though)

Originally Posted by Len Green

Hehehe! ... but what about your graphics ???

Thanks, I'm flattered, even though graphics aren't the most important part of adventures. They do add a lot, but bad design/puzzles/story/characters etc... will spoil a game, no matter how good the graphics are while adventure games with mediocre graphics and great design/puzzles/story/characters can be very enjoyable.

Even though production on Bad Timing is well underway, I'm still fleshing out parts of the story every day. It's a continues process. Graphics are, in my eyes, the easiest thing to make.

--Erwin

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Len Green

Seems there's been a misunderstanding ... or maybe a difference of opinion.
******** I thought the Underground (the title may give the false impression of illicit games or the like! :eek: ) was primarily if not exclusively for those talented folk who develop Indie games &/or are interested in same! Unfortunately, I am not one of these (although I DO do a lot of Indie testing & walkthrus) & IIRC I have never accessed this Forum before now.

Well, the forum description does say "discuss amateur adventures" and it's been my experience that the vast majority of our forum participants read this forum, whether or not they're involved in design in some way.

***** When a post has been moved, I don't know to WHERE it's been moved! Is there any way of determining?

I usually leave a redirect in the old forum; clicking on the redirect takes you to the post's new location.

***** I believe that AdventureGamers is no less interested in 'promoting' Indie &/or Freeware games (especially when they are good ones!) than any of the other Quest/Adventure Forums.
I think that the great majority of players who are unaware of these games but only of 'commercial' games, visit your main Adventure Forum but (like me)not your 'Underground'.

Len, you should know no one on our site is more enthusiastic about promoting Underground games than me. But it is important to me that we maintain a divide on the various forums. I mean, you wouldn't want someone posting in every forum about a first-person shooter that he really liked just because he thought that the General Gaming forum didn't give enough exposure. That's why we set up different forums. As I said, the vast majority of our readers will read the Underground forum, and if we're ever going to establish the Underground aspect of our site then we need to establish that this is the forum where amateur adventures are discussed.

Keep in mind our site was the very first one to feature a full-length review of the game. I think that counts as enthusiasm.

[Len Green]

Hi Stinger,
The last thing I want to do is to have an argument or confrontation with you. Every Site/Forum has its own individual preferences & priorities; and so it should be !

Just one final comment in case you decide to ‘think things over’ (for the good of AG ONLY) some time in the future!

Originally Posted by Stinger

I mean, you wouldn't want someone posting in every forum about a first-person shooter that he really liked just because he thought that the General Gaming forum didn't give enough exposure.

I most certainly agree that I wouldn't want FPS games mixed with Quest/Adventures. But the line between so called amateur & professional games is much more blurred ... and (IMO) I believe that they both belong to the very same genre.
Where exactly do you draw the line ? Is it simply between (A) Downloadable Freeware games and (B) Games which cost money?
At least a few games that I can personally recall (some made using AGS), fall somewhere in between! Just a few examples :-
In category (A) King’s Quest VGA 2 (& 1); New Adventures of Zak McKracken; TeenAgent; Pleurghburg; Out of Order; etc., etc.
In category (B) Adventures of Fatman; Serpenthead Revisited; Harvest; and several I’ve seen costing around the US$20 price which I haven’t (yet)bought or played! etc. etc.

I don’t want to flog a dead horse, but the above is purely for your consideration!
****** BTW :- I think it’s an excellent (and not ‘universal’) plan to have a Forum for those dedicated folk who are really engaged or interested in anything to do with the production etc. of these “amateur” games and their many aspects & ramifications.
What I am talking about, is for ordinary people like me who are basically only able to play the games (whether Freeware or purchased).

~~ A D D E N D U M ~~ (Later) :-
I feel that the blurring mentioned above is likely to increase. AFAIK, the various free tools for making games are becoming more sophisticated. More 'ordinary' folk are trying their hands at developing games than was the case say 2 or 3 years ago.
I myself am in personal contact with 5 or 6 people who are working on their own individual games. Which of them will finish up as 'amateur'/freewares and which as 'professional'/sales-products I don't know ... any more than I yet know which will be excellent & which just so-so!

[tabacco]

Len, why are you even trying to turn this into an argument? Evan wasn't arguing, he was explaining. The underground forum is for the discussion of indie games. Developers AND players.

[Len Green]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Len, why are you even trying to turn this into an argument?

Not so at all !
I was merely trying to express an opinion.
I've expressed it sufficiently.
That's quite enough! 8-)

[Stinger]

It's fine, Len, I totally see all your points, and appreciate the way you expressed them. You and I go back far enough, for sure...do you remember that our first correspondence was your correction of my Blue Force walkthrough about six years ago?

Anyway, here's the thing: there are other sites and forums that do cater specifically to the amateur adventure developer, but not really any that are specifically designed for the adventure player. We're trying to blur that line as much as possible and create a place where the developers and the players can hold hands in a circle and sing Band-Aid songs in chorus, or at least all post in the same forum.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts. We will always draw a line between games that are sold commercially and games that are designed to be released as open freeware (not to be confused with games that were commercially released and then later became freeware). Though the quality of the two sides is getting closer and closer, the line will always be clear on that criteria.

- Evan

[Len Green]

Originally Posted by Stinger

It's fine, Len, I totally see all your points, and appreciate the way you expressed them. You and I go back far enough, for sure...do you remember that our first correspondence was your correction of my Blue Force walkthrough about six years ago?

You do yourself an injustice Evan! :eek: I don't think I CORRECTED your Blue Force. I think you found a bug in the scoring mechanism, and I found either another one or an addition/extension to the one you found ... but who's counting ? hehehe!

WOW ... SIX YEARS ago. Time just evaporates at my age. I was a youngster of only 73 at that time --- and you were ........ er, ah; never mind!

Seriously ... we've been in loose contact sporadically over the years and I don't think there's ever been a harsh word between us! Differences of opinion --- probably ... but IIRC, never *arguments*.

I DO remember that on one subject certainly we had absolutely NO difference of opinion ... and despite all the recent 'marvels', I personally still haven't changed my mind!
The Day of the Tentacle is one of the finest & most enjoyable games ever made. It's humor & more important it's clever wit are still fresh today despite all technical advances. Its graphics & voice acting & interface are/were SUPERB !
It's VERY difficult to judge & compare games of different vintages ... but taking into consideration that it was released a little over 10 years ago, I think it ("comparatively") still remains my number one of all time!!