[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

All in favor, say I.

You're a funny one, you are, with your constant comments and posts in a thread you *apparently * cherish as worthless and stupid.

I'll look over the articles when I'm finished scowling at Spitfire.

[Dasilva]

Thats Mr. Spitfire to you, bucko.

[Giligan]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

All in favor, say I.

Ok, I

[Legolas813]

Originally Posted by ART_Adventures

Exactly how do we define fan games? For example, is any free game a fan game? are indie games made by small teams or one man operations a fan game?

In this case yes. I think we are using fan game and amateur or underground game interchangeably.

[ART_Adventures]

Well, being a developer myself. Having made two free games, and working on a full commercial project, my view is likely to be biased.

But regardless, if a person defines a fangame as one which is made by one person or a small team, then I feel it's a shortsighted generalisation to term them all bad. It would be just as bold and ill-founded to judge all big-budget mainstream games as being good, which we know they are not.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by ART_Adventures

Well, being a developer myself. Having made two free games, and working on a full commercial project, my view is likely to be biased.

But regardless, if a person defines a fangame as one which is made by one person or a small team, then I feel it's a shortsighted generalisation to term them all bad. It would be just as bold and ill-founded to judge all big-budget mainstream games as being good, which we know they are not.

I'd just like to add that I didn't make this thread -- my post was written in response to people's crazed anticipation of Silver Lining.

[Dasilva]

That ''craze'' saved the project. Nuff said.

[Lucifiel]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Well, it can be done in one post ya know.

Amateurish? There are so many amateur developers around the community that have accepted employment for game making companies, A artist from the Hero6 project got a job at Blizzard Software because of the work she did. So our 'amateurs' could be tomorows 'pros'.

EDIT: Fixed typo.

Actually, you can also count an artist from Microsoft among their team.

[Jazhara7]

I haven't read the entire thread (I'll get to it eventually, I can't focus right now), but I wanted to supply an example of what I think is an excellent Amateur Adventure game.

"Five Magical Amulets" by Off Studio was published, if I remember correctly...

It's originally in Czech, but the English version is great too, and the translation into English is excellent (there was only one slight translation error, but that's forgiveable. The translation is better than some translations of games that always were commercial).

Also, the game is long, the plot good, and the graphics are not at all bad (though there's always room for improvement, of course).




-

[Dasilva]

I thought the graphics had a really home made feel to it. I liked it. Never finished it though.

[bigjko]

I'm sorry, but..

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

I'm pretty disappointed some (if not all) think I'm an attention seeker. If you look at my posting history, I've never started a thread with the intention of a flame-war. I didn't start this one either...

What the hell did you expect would happen in a thread solely dedicated to the news of a fangame revival, after a post like yours?

I'd say you were lucky it got moved into its own thread. It may be out of context, but that just means it's more of a generalization, than pin-pointed at one game.

[Squinky]

To be quite honest, I'm disappointed that AudioSoldier hasn't been able to properly rebut the arguments I've presented in article form about the un-creative state of the game industry in its present form.

I wonder if that means that this thread is officially dead.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Squinky

To be quite honest, I'm disappointed that AudioSoldier hasn't been able to properly rebut the arguments I've presented in article form about the un-creative state of the game industry in its present form.

I wonder if that means that this thread is officially dead.

Well, I beg yeh pardon, but I've been busy lately. Writing an article on the King's Quest series and all, and I rather suspect my procrastination tendencies are coming to the fore.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Squinky

To be quite honest, I'm disappointed that AudioSoldier hasn't been able to properly rebut the arguments I've presented in article form about the un-creative state of the game industry in its present form.

I wonder if that means that this thread is officially dead.

I read earlier that you enjoy cartoon adventures? Correct? I don't know about you, but rather than relying on fan-made creations, I can resort to the past greats if I'm looking for an adventure game saturated in laughs, cartoon imagery and all-round greatness.

Moreover, are cartoon adventures really so innovative? You tell me that you want to play these sorts of games, but that they never come out. Considering the masses of these games produced some years ago, I see no need to re-live the experience of these games in some shoody-fan game.

Innovation is a dying phenomenon. Yes. Fan games aren't going to change this. No matter how innovative, they'll likely never reach the mainstream eye and pave the way for innovative, well-made commercial titles released on a large scale.

Edit: And frankly, whether you enjoy making them or not is simply besides my point. I appreciate the fact that it can be rewarding and enjoyable to witness your brainchild come to life in the form of a pixellated 640X480 fan game, but for many reasons, I simply don't see them as much good.

Edit 2: And to respond to a point made earlier about an engine that is accessible to fan game creators. Well...certainly, it may be open to them: However, actually using an engine is a difficult process and unless you have the financial backing and the skills learnt from working in the industry (studying and so forth) you're unlikely to produce anything that demonstrates the capabilities of the engine.

Many of you have been shouting at me and telling me that they're "free!" and that they're only made for "fun!" and that I "shouldn't play them If I don't want to!".

I know all this.

And I know this: I still haven't played a fan game that has made me fell differently about the industry.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by ART_Adventures

Well, being a developer myself. Having made two free games, and working on a full commercial project, my view is likely to be biased.

But regardless, if a person defines a fangame as one which is made by one person or a small team, then I feel it's a shortsighted generalisation to term them all bad. It would be just as bold and ill-founded to judge all big-budget mainstream games as being good, which we know they are not.

I consider a fan game something that's free.

[ART_Adventures]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

I consider a fan game something that's free.

OK. Well, fair enough. As we can already see, people's opinions on exactly what a fan game is can also differ. My free games Sigma and Blast Zone are not the most technically wonderful creations, and neither are they the most innovative, and I don't pretend they are. But some people have enjoyed them. And, for me, that is how I judge whether I think a game is good. Based upon how much I enjoy playing it. I don't need great graphics or great sound to enjoy a game. Certainly, excellent graphics and sound can make a good game great, but they can't make a bad game good.

I'm not really going to enter a long debate over this subject because every person is entitled to their view, and should people happen to dislike fangames, for whatever reasons, then that is their right.

But I can speak for myself. My intention, with the creation of my current commercial project, is not to enter the "mainstream", and is not to make any influences on the genre. In fact, my game will not have a mission besides being something that I hope my players/customers will enjoy playing. It doesn't have a huge budget, it does't have a large team (just me), and it doesn't offer anything that hasn't technically been offered before. But it will be original. It will be different and, for many, I hope it will be fun. And I don't need a large budget or a big company to achieve any of those things.

http://www.alanthorn.net/MTC/

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by ART_Adventures

OK. Well, fair enough. As we can already see, people's opinions on exactly what a fan game is can also differ. My free games Sigma and Blast Zone are not the most technically wonderful creations, and neither are they the most innovative, and I don't pretend they are. But some people have enjoyed them. And, for me, that is how I judge whether I think a game is good. Based upon how much I enjoy playing it. I don't need great graphics or great sound to enjoy a game. Certainly, excellent graphics and sound can make a good game great, but they can't make a bad game good.

I'm not really going to enter a long debate over this subject because every person is entitled to their view, and should people happen to dislike fangames, for whatever reasons, then that is their right.

But I can speak for myself. My intention, with the creation of my current commercial project, is not to enter the "mainstream", and is not to make any influences on the genre. In fact, my game will not have a mission besides being something that I hope my players/customers will enjoy playing. It doesn't have a huge budget, it does't have a large team (just me), and it doesn't offer anything that hasn't technically been offered before. But it will be original. It will be different and, for many, I hope it will be fun. And I don't need a large budget or a big company to achieve any of those things.

http://www.alanthorn.net/MTC/

I disagree with that. Although few adventure games are saved by great visuals, something like Doom 3 -- without the brilliant visuals -- would have been labelled as shamefacedly repetitive and mediocre.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

I disagree with that. Although few adventure games are saved by great visuals, something like Doom 3 -- without the brilliant visuals -- would have been labelled as shamefacedly repetitive and mediocre.

We're talking about adventure games not FPSs.

[AudioSoldier]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

We're talking about adventure games not FPSs.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious... Which is why I insidiously inserted the "few adventure games but something like Doom 3" phrase. Sheesh.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by AudioSoldier

Thanks for pointing out the obvious... Which is why I insidiously inserted the "few adventure games but something like Doom 3" phrase. Sheesh.

Yes, and if you want your points to actually come accross use adventure game examples. Some people don't play FPSs.