[squarejawhero]

Anyone got the full spiel on the Uru/Myst Obsession hostile website takeovers and all the crazy stuff going on over there? I didn't even realise all this stuff was happening.

I'd already commented over on the Myst V forums it's strange that a community commited to a non-violent game could induce such powerplay. Very wierd... but having been in the Uru beta, I shouldn't be suprised with some of the ego's I encountered during my stay there. All I know is that one of the founders (maybe?), aptly called Gehn, took over the website last week and it's now back in the hands of it's (rightful?) owners.

Can't get my head wrapped around it. Anyone?

[Sage]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

Anyone got the full spiel on the Uru/Myst Obsession hostile website takeovers and all the crazy stuff going on over there? I didn't even realise all this stuff was happening.

I'd already commented over on the Myst V forums it's strange that a community commited to a non-violent game could induce such powerplay. Very wierd... but having been in the Uru beta, I shouldn't be suprised with some of the ego's I encountered during my stay there. All I know is that one of the founders (maybe?), aptly called Gehn, took over the website last week and it's now back in the hands of it's (rightful?) owners.

Can't get my head wrapped around it. Anyone?

How in the wide world of sports does one commit a hostile takeover of a website? And more importantly, why would one want to? Couldn't they have just started a website of their own?

ScottMate

[Fairygdmther]

Originally Posted by Thrift Store Scott

How in the wide world of sports does one commit a hostile takeover of a website? And more importantly, why would one want to? Couldn't they have just started a website of their own?

ScottMate

Well, you have to hack into the site, and break down the passcodes to do it. As for why? I suppose because you know how to do it, and you want to show them who's boss? Why does anyone do destructive things? To get back at someone?

Lynsie

[Lucien21]

Looks like the staff that were fired used the backups to set up the Myst Obsession site on another server.

LOL

Intrigue and backstabbing in the the Myst world. I blame the lack of social skills. All that time stranded on an island with no conversations and other characters to play with make them exhibit anti-social behaviour and megalomaniacal tendencies.

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

Well, you have to hack into the site, and break down the passcodes to do it. As for why? I suppose because you know how to do it, and you want to show them who's boss? Why does anyone do destructive things? To get back at someone?

Lynsie

But...but...but...? *shakes head*
I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine any sane person working up that level of passion over something that, in the grand sceme of things, makes no difference at all.
Yes, I like the Myst series, mostly for the exact same reasons that some people hate it. I might even go so far as to say I'm a fan. But to go to the trouble of hacking into a website and breaking down passcodes in what amounts to a pointless pissing contest over A COMPUTER GAME is a sure sign that somebody needs a Thorazine Big Gulp and a whole lot of closely supervised "quiet time".

ScottMate

[Sage]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

Looks like the staff that were fired used the backups to set up the Myst Obsession site on another server.

LOL

Intrigue and backstabbing in the the Myst world. I blame the lack of social skills. All that time stranded on an island with no conversations and other characters to play with make them exhibit anti-social behaviour and megalomaniacal tendencies.

ROFL!
You said it far better than I did, Lucien. Bravo!

Scottmate

[squarejawhero]

One of the original creators of the site, Gehn (interestingly enough), paid for the server for a month and then kicked out all of the admin and banned them. They wrestled it back from him. Sounds a bit like Riven come to life.

[squarejawhero]

ROFL. It gets wierder. I may just leave this community alone until they sort themselves out.

Check out these identical sites!

Uru Obsession Forum.

Gehn's explanation and link to an identical forum and Uru Obsession site.

How wierd is this? A pacifist game with a community broken in two. Uh... RIVEN in two.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by Thrift Store Scott

But...but...but...? *shakes head*
I'm sorry, but I just can't imagine any sane person working up that level of passion over something that, in the grand sceme of things, makes no difference at all.
Yes, I like the Myst series, mostly for the exact same reasons that some people hate it. I might even go so far as to say I'm a fan. But to go to the trouble of hacking into a website and breaking down passcodes in what amounts to a pointless pissing contest over A COMPUTER GAME is a sure sign that somebody needs a Thorazine Big Gulp and a whole lot of closely supervised "quiet time".

ScottMate

BTW much as I hate to say this, Myst has evolved beyond just the game into a very big community founded on the *gak* philosophies, culture and new-age content of the saga, almost as "semi-religious" as Trekism. People put a lot of effort into libraries devoted to *coff* D'ni cultural issues and language, theological discussions and linking theory (relating it to current wormhole theory).

If you think I'm joking, check the sites. Or play Uru.

As such, as much as most of the (very, very large) community is made up of people purely interested in the games and the fantasy element (like myself, Parrot from JA+ and Mszv) and get on with others like ourselves, there is a large hardcore culture most of whom, even though are very "nice" and occasionally a bit too touchy-feely supportive, are actually quite egotistical and knowing. I came across this element in the Uru beta. Sure, some of the more obsessed are nice peeps, but there is an element of fanaticism which I really didn't like.

Cyan members are revered and almost elevated to a priest-like status (Rawa, GreyDragon) but my problem with the community is that Cyan seem to respond to it in kind. ROFL, anyone from the community who discovers this post will probably call for my site-wide ban... anyhow, one of the biggest communities is Uru Obsession, now Myst Obsession (I think). It's a good news source for Myst games and some nice discussion but suffers from this element too.

I think it spoils some of the mysticism and quiet nature of the games themselves. I never like over-detailing things, personally. Anyhow, this latest spat seems pretty nasty.

[Lucien21]

They are soooooo SAD


*Backs away slowly from the crazy person*

[squarejawhero]

Latest is the current holders of the Uru/Myst obsession boards are creating Adventure Obsession.

So, a new AG site. Games listed include "Zelda". RARGH!

[Jake]

Welcome to the world of fu-cked up Internet uber-fans, where being a fan becomes more important than the thing you became a fan of in the first place.

[Fairygdmther]

... and where "fan" truly is short for fanatic

Lynsie

[mszv]

You know, I remember, in the old days, some contraversy between Just Adventure and AdventureGamers, in the olden days that is, not now! There's also been contraversy over at Just Adventure, former partners and all that.

Volunteer groups are like that sometimes. I know plenty of stories about volunteer groups - and the "office politics" can be a lot worse than at places where they pay you. Getting paid for what you do seems to exert a leveling influence. If all you get rewarded for is power and influence, it doesn't always bring out the best in people. On the bad politics - not where I mod, thankfully, and not here - I know that! Domain site ownership is also a big thing, and you don't want that stolen from you.

For all that, the contraversy (and I know a little about it) over at Myst and Uru Obsession - the contraversy is essentially over. The people who have been running the site still have the site - and they are doing a good job. I'm glad it all turned out OK.

I'm not sure what the folks at Myst/Uru Obsession are going to do when they tackle other games. I suspect that they will have a different focus, and won't directly compete with Adventure Gamers or Just Adventure. They do have a real talent at reporting on Myst and Uru stuff - all the info about the games was posted really fast, and since they spanned time zones they could really get stuff out fast. They also report on everything, positive and negative, and they always have the latest screenshots and movies. It's nice.

Hey - glad I was listed as one of the nice one! Oh, and the people I know who run Myst Obsession (don't know them all) are pretty neat - not touchy feely or Cyan obessed at all!

Oh wait - while I'm here. There is a core of people who are into the world of the Myst series games - you know fan fiction, artwork, other stuff, not a lot of people, but some. I don't find it surprising - people do fan fiction about most fabricated worlds, including television shows. Not all Myst series games fans are like that, but some are. I put them in sort of the same category as the Star Wars fans, the Tolkien fans, the Star Trek fans, the Buffy fans, the Dr Who fans, etc. I'm not that much of a fan, but I'd admit, I'm been involved in the new Myst series games as a volunteer, since 2003, and I'm going to miss it when it's gone. Getting involved in an online community, and having a role, it's rather neat. I'd never experienced that before.

[squarejawhero]

OK, I'm being bitter (again). Thanks for knocking me straight, mszv.

[mszv]

SJC - you aren't bitter - just making interesting observations, as always!

[Eleri]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

ROFL, anyone from the community who discovers this post will probably call for my site-wide ban...

Why? You don't like the cultural immersiveness of it, so what? *shrug* For me, the 'game' would lose a whole lot of it's appeal if it didn't have the wealth of background material to explore and discuss. I suppose then it could be like any other cardboard cut out computer game with jack for detail and a pasted on story that people with 'lives' like to play.

[squarejawhero]

Ehm, as I said, I had a bad experience with the Uru beta and if you check the Myst V forums you'll see I'm not alone.

I personally feel that the wider, semi-religious "new age" stories and convoluted fake histories actually took a lot of the mysticism away from the Myst universe, and that basing Uru (let alone the other mistakes in the otherwise beautiful game) within that remit may have cost them a lot of interest. Cyan DO pander heavily to the more hardcore fans, and Uru was a fan-based product which relied too heavily on a wider "historic" world rather than the Myst people know from the main games. I could see what they were trying to do, but it felt more like an "insiders" game as there was very little explanation for the concepts, and what description there was was complicated, convoluted and difficult to figure out, let alone care about, for someone not versed in the novels.

The game's appeal WERE in their simplicity. The complication came in the gameworld and puzzles, not the plots. The wider story implied by the Myst saga is better implied, rather than heftily explained in weighty tomes, otherwise you can tie yourself up in knots - case in point, actually trying to scientifically explain an impossible, fantasy technique in technical terms. Some people might enjoy that, but Cyan, to my mind, panders to those who indulge in that which made any criticism of them during the Uru beta, or even on Myst forums, very difficult.

In other words, I find the "cultural immersiveness" a little scary at times, and makes it difficult to talk about things critically. I'm a fan, too.

Basically, I don't have an issue with what the fans do. I do take issue with the way Cyan handled the Uru beta and the community that sprang from it, and whilst their commitment to the hardcore fanbase should be commended, they let it rule their own judgement. They're only developers, great ones to my mind, but fallible. Thankfully Myst V looks like it could rectify that.

Besides, if you didn't care about what I said, you wouldn't be posting now, would you? It's only my opinion, and besides, I didn't say the entire community was a rotten bunch, did I... just I wasn't happy with certain things.

[mszv]

Since I spent so much of my life with Uru (from January 2003 on) - I've thought about this a lot.

I think that the Uru backstory (the world history, the background of hte world) would not have been so annoying if two things would have happened

- there would have been more of a story - what happens to the characters, the plot. I don't think story is that big in online RPG games, but it's got to be better than the little tiny story in Uru. Very little happens in Uru, and there is no character development.
- there would have been more to do in the game.

I think the "more to do in the game" is the key point. As I mentioned before, you just can't give people enough puzzles to do, in an online game, if all you can do in the game is solve puzzles. Good players were burning through new content in a day. That's why MMORPG games give you something to do that is a variation on what you've done before - killing monstors, casting spells, etc. Not that I think that Uru should have been a level grind, or an MMORPG, but the development team should have given people more to do. I was in the beta for 10 months, and in the public beta, and there never was enough to do. By the time of the public beta, I would have thought that Cyan would have given us so much to that it would have made us dizzy!

People did try to make their own fun, and still do - witness the "high dive" contests in Until Uru. In Until Uru, you can still go online, on private servers, but there is no new content, But, it's not easy. You can't make anything, the game doesn't support, in any true sense, making your own games. There's just precious little to do. So, aside from general socialing and running aournd (and I enjoyed that part), all there was to do, in game, was talk about the story and the backstory.

As an example, it would have been nifty if you could have performed a task, and gotten a hovercraft. Then, perhaps, a whole new level of things to do would have been opened up to you - hovercraft races, transporting stranded players to other parts of the world, hovercraft parties, to name a few. The Cyan folks aren't stupid - I'm sure they would have given us more to do, if they thought it was important. For whatever reason, they just didn't seem to think it was important. I still can't figure it out.

At the end of the beta, someone used a bug in the game to have an event. In the big circular room in the city (pillars with books circled it, and there were two open doors), someone flooded the place with markers. The markers made a cloud, and they vibrated, with the music. Then they dispersed. It was magical. We all stood or sat around, chatted a bit, and experienced the show. We were in the middle of the show. It wasn't a "game", per say, but it was beautiful, and it was an event. I really liked it.

--------------------------

I do think that many (not all) Myst series players aren't really interested in adventure games per se - they are interested in being part of an immersive, persistent world. Many of the Myst series fans who were very active in the community are now playing World of Warcraft.

[squarejawhero]

MMO's really live off the "persistant world" formula, which Uru couldn't do. The design was very restrictive in and of itself, as you've noted. There's only so much you can do and a game like this requires a lot of content. I know that there were other ages being worked on, but the finite world itself would've still been quite small per age.

I agree on the story front. Something like Guild Wars or World of Warcraft really place importance on individual narrative, with the player choosing their own threads. Taking this formula, and that Myst requires worlds, I personally feel that rather than playing yourself, Cyan should've broken with tradition and thrown themselves into the "historic" D'ni universe they'd created through the books, rather than merely refer to it. A non-violent MMO similar to Tale In The Desert would've been far more accessible, with players role-playing different castes in D'ni society - maybe even Bahro?

True, not that innovative, but smaller localised "instanced" zones similar to what Uru has now could make use of puzzle formuli (as in, puzzles that change per player) to allow continuation on a set path, rather than attacking enemies as you would do in another MMO.

An instanced Library could've provided links to other ages from D'ni (itself an entire world to explore, rather than an area - probably divided like Everquest 2's zone system) which, instead of being intimate affairs, could've used Cyan's unique design to create individual otherworlds which break from formula often found in MMO's. Dependent on the path, instanced chambers would provide smaller tasks and worlds for the player through areas in the bigger worlds.

Crafting would play importance, and a local economy. Writing could also play a part - some kind of building-block system to create an age with extras being opened up for writers. Writing could also effect local areas in some way or even create events for all players for those who'd reached higher levels.