[WRMW]

I recently received my copy of GK2 in the mail and GK3 is on its way (hopefully arriving soon). I'm planning to buy GK1 off of ebay shortly.

I've recently sworn a solemn oath not to use any walkthroughs or even consult UHS as I'm trying be able to completely finish a game myself. I've been successfull only once (Missing), and broke down and used UHS once in Syberia 2 and Myst... I've hung in there with runaway, and am working on the final chapter, hopefully I'll be able to hold out.

Anyhow, this is way off topic from my post. I'm wondering if there are any dead ends in the GK games. I'm talking about where you can make a game impossible to continue and have to start over, either because you don't have an inventory item or haven't done something you should have (a la KQ). I really don't want to spend all my time searching for a solution if it's not even there, because I've hit one of the "dead ends".
I'm hoping not because this is one of my pet peeves in adventure games. To me, it's just poor game design and a cheap trick to increase difficulty.

Thanks

[fov]

Welcome to the forum!

As far as I know there are no dead ends in the GK games. These games came out near the end of the Sierra timeline and Sierra had made a lot of changes to the games by then, including getting rid of the dead ends and frequent dying. If any of them had dead ends it would be GK1, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I hope you enjoy these games. GK2 is one of my very favorites, and I liked the others too.

emily

i prity sure Emily is correct. i dont remember having any problems with any of the GK games, all but the third becuase i have'nt played it. (could'nt get the cammera to slow down)

[Dragonrose]

In GK2 I think it's possible to get into a situation where the only result is death, but once you die the game takes you back to a point where you can fix it. There are no walking deads in GK3- it says it in the documentation somewhere. I don't think there are any walking deads in GK1, or if there are it's something really hard to miss.

Enjoy the GK series. It's awesome.

[Captain Blondebeard]

GK is a very well written series and I dont believe tere is any dead ends although 1 is very hard in my opinion. I admire you not using walkthroughs. When I was younger games were so much harder unlike now when there is 100 walkthrough a button click away. Lately using hints have been like an addiction I cant overcome. I hate being stuck for longer than 20 mins. I'm about to play The Dig for the first time and then Toonstruck and I am going to do my best not to consult a walkthrough.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Hate to be the bearer of this message, but there are several possibilities for dead ends in the first game, Sins of the Fathers. However, these are all in the very last chapter, so it is a good idea to save often when playing Day 10.

If you fail to do certain things at certain points on Day 10, you will be killed later on, and you won't be taken straight back to the point where you could correct your mistake - which might be a relatively long rewind anyway - so you'll have to figure out where you went wrong for yourself, load a saved game from before the point you could have done the crucial thing, and replay every step thereafter.

This isn't as bad as it may sound. If you do reach a dead end, the death sequence will give you a fairly good idea what you did wrong, or rather, failed to do. And the dead ends are nowhere near as bad as in certain other Sierra titles of yore.

But the point to keep in mind is to have multiple saves at different points of Day 10. You'll thank yourself for doing so.

It is perfectly possible to complete the game, including the last chapter, without consulting any hints or walkthroughs (thanks to Jane's intelligent design and writing). What you have to do can be reasoned out perfectly logically, and really, the retracing of familiar steps won't take more than a few minutes - that is, if you've saved early and saved often, as per the Sierra motto.

P.S. You can die in some of the earlier chapters as well, but they won't be dead ends in the sense that you'd have to retrace steps prior to the dangerous situation. Nor will they be sudden pointless deaths with no warning signs whatsoever; you'll know when to go for the save button in those instances.

[Captain Blondebeard]

Originally Posted by Simo Sakari Aaltonen

Hate to be the bearer of this message, but there are several possibilities for dead ends in the first game, Sins of the Fathers. However, these are all in the very last chapter, so it is a good idea to save often when playing Day 10.

If you fail to do certain things at certain points on Day 10, you will be killed later on, and you won't be taken straight back to the point where you could correct your mistake - which might be a relatively long rewind anyway - so you'll have to figure out where you went wrong for yourself, load a saved game from before the point you could have done the crucial thing, and replay every step thereafter.

This isn't as bad as it may sound. If you do reach a dead end, the death sequence will give you a fairly good idea what you did wrong, or rather, failed to do. And the dead ends are nowhere near as bad as in certain other Sierra titles of yore.

But the point to keep in mind is to have multiple saves at different points of Day 10. You'll thank yourself for doing so.

It is perfectly possible to complete the game, including the last chapter, without consulting any hints or walkthroughs (thanks to Jane's intelligent design and writing). What you have to do can be reasoned out perfectly logically, and really, the retracing of familiar steps won't take more than a few minutes - that is, if you've saved early and saved often, as per the Sierra motto.

P.S. You can die in some of the earlier chapters as well, but they won't be dead ends in the sense that you'd have to retrace steps prior to the dangerous situation. Nor will they be sudden pointless deaths with no warning signs whatsoever; you'll know when to go for the save button in those instances.

Hmmm, I dont ever remember even dying. I'm sure your right but what are you referring to. Maybe you can let me know since I want to replay. Use a spoiler tag.

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

Sure thing. No peeking, the rest of you.

Spoiler:

First the ordinary deaths. You can die when the snake is strangling you, or if you enter the ritual circle in the bayou without the proper preparations (or if you fail to answer correctly the questions Dr. John asks when you enter the circle), and of course on Day 9 with the golems - or 'mummies' as they are called in the game - chasing you. And then there are any number of ways to die on Day 10 if you don't do the correct thing at the correct time and quickly enough. The Voodoo cartel HQ also has you doing some timed puzzles.

Then the dead ends. These all basically involve failing to do something before you enter the room with Grace in it. After you enter that room, you can no longer go back outside, and in a few moments Dr. John will enter the room. If you're not properly prepared, he'll kill you.

One of the worse scenarios is the following. If you fail to leave both the objects Mosely needs in the confessional/elevator, he won't be along to help you at the ceremony. In that case - and assuming you still have the mask and robe for Gabriel and manage to wake up Grace before Dr. John enters - you will actually go to the ritual circle alone (that is, without Mosely).

And of course, without Mosely along to do away with Dr. John, this will lead to the deaths of both Gabriel and Grace.

Likewise, if you haven't picked up both of the disguises (one for Gabriel and one for Mosely), Dr. John will enter the room and kill both of you.

One variation, if I recall correctly, involves Mosely putting on his diguise but Gabriel remaining undisguised. This too leads to nastiness.

So if the player only has one game save for Day 10, and they enter the room with Grace in it without having done everything that must be done prior to that, and if they then save the game - they're screwed.

It's vital to have a game save from the point where Gabriel enters the underground hounfour. All the dead ends can be avoided if all the necessary actions are taken from that point on. (Leave both required objects in the confessional and take both robes and both masks from the prop room, and you'll be fine.)

Sorry if that was a bit long or unnecessarily involved.

[fov]

Thanks for the explanation, Simo. I'd forgotten about

Spoiler:

not doing the necessary things before entering the room with Grace

I guess I don't consider that a dead end because it's a relatively short amount of time between what you have to do and when you get stuck, but you're right that if someone only has one save, they'll be screwed.

Spoiler:

Not leaving the stuff in the elevator for Mosley - I definitely consider that a dead end.

-emily

[Simo Sakari Aaltonen]

I'm always happy to talk about the design of Gabriel Knight.

Spoiler:

Unless I'm mistaken, though, the elevator doesn't actually return upstairs unless and until you have left both the required objects in there - so it's possible to rectify the mistake of having failed to do so right up until the moment you go to the room Grace is being kept in.

So it's sort of a kinder, gentler dead end.

[WRMW]

Alright thanks everyone. I should be able to handle the one part of dead ends. At least now I've got a head's up.

I'm really relieved now, because the moment I found out about the GK games, I KNEW I had to have them. They seemed to be everything I was looking for in a game: 3rd person adv, with deep story, with significant character changes, it was... well...

Only when I started to play GK2, I realized it could have dead ends and got worried. I wanted to enjoy these games, and didn't want to be frustrated and never be able to advance without a walthrough, so I had to know. I've never really had problems with dying, just dead-ends. To me, dying is just another puzzle to work around.

It's really difficult not to use UHS anymore, but I want to be able to finish and experience the games completely on my own. I always felt like I had cheated myself, and once I started to use UHS in a game, I couldn't stop.
I don't have alot of time to play adv. games anymore, and I've got so many lined up to play, I'll end up breaking soon, but I don't want it to be with the GK games.

Thanks again

[gillyruless]

Doesn't GK 2 have a nasty bug that stops the game in Ch2? I remember having to get a patch for it and cursing because the game after getting patched would not recognize any saved games made prior to applying the patch and I had to start the game from the beginning.

[fov]

There is a patch, and it should be applied when you first play because it makes your saves unusable. I think it's ch3 or ch5 where the problem occurs (the coocoo clock issue, right?)

The patch should be available for download from Sierra's download site - probably called something clever like GK2pat.exe (but don't quote me on that!)

-emily

[Captain Blondebeard]

Originally Posted by fov

There is a patch, and it should be applied when you first play because it makes your saves unusable. I think it's ch3 or ch5 where the problem occurs (the coocoo clock issue, right?)

The patch should be available for download from Sierra's download site - probably called something clever like GK2pat.exe (but don't quote me on that!)

-emily

Wierd. I played it without error not 2 years ago.

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by fov

There is a patch, and it should be applied when you first play because it makes your saves unusable. I think it's ch3 or ch5 where the problem occurs (the coocoo clock issue, right?)

The patch should be available for download from Sierra's download site - probably called something clever like GK2pat.exe (but don't quote me on that!)

-emily

I think we can safely quote you on that Emily! I have checked and it is, as you suggested, so cleverly named, GK2pat.exe.

It's interesting that some people was able to play GK2 without the patch. I definitely experienced problems prior to applying the patch myself. You couldn't continue the game without the patch if I remember correctly. Does anyone know whether Sierra released different versions of GK2? I know Sierra did release the GK collection and maybe they included a patched version of GK2 for the collection.

[fov]

Originally Posted by gillyruless

I know Sierra did release the GK collection and maybe they included a patched version of GK2 for the collection.

Very possible. I believe the problem was only on the Windows version, and maybe only on the standalone release. But I also think it's a bug that some people get and others don't.

-emily

ps We're lucky Sierra's naming conventions were pretty mundane, or we'd never be able to find anything on that ftp site!

[rtrooney]

You can die in GK3, but the game will send you back to where were before the death sequence. Sometimes this is harmless. Other times, particularly with a few of the Action sequences, you can die over and over again, until you get it right.

As someone has pointed out, you can dead end in GK1. In GK2 and GK3 there are points you simply cannot progress beyond if you haven't done everything. While not a frustrating as a dead end, it can leave one missing more than a few hair follicles as one starts resorting to pixel searches for the item(s) that are impeding progress. I found this to be the case in GK3.

Tim

[Captain Blondebeard]

Originally Posted by gillyruless

I think we can safely quote you on that Emily! I have checked and it is, as you suggested, so cleverly named, GK2pat.exe.

It's interesting that some people was able to play GK2 without the patch. I definitely experienced problems prior to applying the patch myself. You couldn't continue the game without the patch if I remember correctly. Does anyone know whether Sierra released different versions of GK2? I know Sierra did release the GK collection and maybe they included a patched version of GK2 for the collection.

I played Torrins Passage when it came out without hitch and then the next 2 times I played it (not knowing about the torrins patch) I could'nt move on without the patch. Sierra made quite a few games with problems it seems. Woodruff had a similiar problem.

[edlglide]

The only King's Quest game that I can remember having a dead end was King's Quest 5 -- but I played 3 and 4 a very long time ago, and I played the remakes of King's Quest 1 and 2 which may have had any dead ends removed. I seem to recall at least one dead end in Gold Rush, but it was one that was pretty easily correctable if you had a previous save game. As for the deaths so famous (infamous?) in King's Quest......I actually liked that style of adventure game. Now, I also enjoyed the LucasArts games where you didn't have to worry about dying, but it was two separate styles and I don't think one was superior to the other. The Sierra games kept you on your toes whereas the LucasArts games were more laid back. But this is all rather off-topic, since it really has little to do with Gabriel Knight.

[fov]

AGDI removed the dead ends from their KQ2 remake. I don't think they removed them from their KQ1 remake because they stayed true to the game, but I could be wrong. Example of a dead end in the original KQ1:

Spoiler:

Go into the leprechauns' (sp?) underground place without the magic mushroom that enables you to get out.

There were some in the other games too. I remember reaching the end of KQ4 and having to replay almost from the beginning because

Spoiler:

I had wasted my second arrow -- needed to kill Lolotte -- trying to shoot the frog

-emily