[GenghisKhan44]

I've been thinking about the ending of Edna and Harvey: The Breakout. And how dissatisfying it is... and where the makers got such an idea. With Edna being locked up for ten years, you would think it was the Josef Fritzl case (where a man locked up his daughter in his basement for a decade or more).

But according to the makers. So then what real life cases have children being detained into adulthood? And child murder?

A short Google search, and I found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

According to the wiki article, Mary Bell killed two 3-year old boys, and was sentenced to over 10 years in prison. She got out at age 25, and is still alive (though she lives anonymously due to the stigma of her crime). On its release in the 60s, it was a popular news story in Germany.

Any other theories? I would really like to know where Poki got such an idea. If this is the case, though, that Poki used as a standard, it makes more sense to me why Mattis tried to protect Edna. I mean... who sentences a child to execution or jail for pushing a kid down the stairs and killing them?

[zane]

i have no idea what inspired the devs. My guess is that its a collage of things and not any one incident. Therev been alot of games that use the formula of: wrongfully locked inside an asylum + cant remember who you are + related to murder somehow. Edna and harvey puts its own delightful zany twists on it, and has surprisingly grim endings. It does seem unlikely that edna would have gotten a severe sentence. I like the endings regardless (particularly the pro-harvey one), but they do feel rushed.

[GenghisKhan44]

Yes, that is my concern, too (it being rushed). But also... how the Hell do you kill someone by pushing them down the stairs? And how the Hell would that translate into murder charges? I don't think they were that draconian even in the USSR.

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by GenghisKhan44

But also... how the Hell do you kill someone by pushing them down the stairs? And how the Hell would that translate into murder charges?

Necks tend to break easily, especially when pushed down stairs. One only has to fall awkardly for it to be fatal.

And how is pushing someone down the stairs and killing them NOT murder?


And why am I responding in a spoilery topic about a game I haven't played???

[zobraks]

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

And why am I responding in a spoilery topic about a game I haven't played???

Because you're (overly) curious (and hyperactive ).
You should have known what curiosity did to the proverbial cat.

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by zobraks

Because you're (overly) curious

Guilty.

(and hyperactive ).

Dead wrong. "Lazy bum" would be a lot more accurate.

[Schneckchen ^.^]

Originally Posted by GenghisKhan44

Yes, that is my concern, too (it being rushed). But also... how the Hell do you kill someone by pushing them down the stairs?

I've heard of an instance where a womman tripped and fell in a parking lot and died. It all just depends on how you fall.

Other than that I liked the endings but I'm not sure they really required any great inspiration from anywhere.

[zobraks]

Originally Posted by zobraks

and hyperactive

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

Dead wrong. "Lazy bum" would be a lot more accurate.

In that case, forget Dilbert - this guy would make a much better avatar for you:

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by zobraks

In that case, forget Dilbert - this guy would make a much better avatar for you:

You're actually right. When I started working, Dilbert suited me better, but I've turned into Wally since then.

Kept the Dilbert avatar, though... being less in-your-face with laziness yields better results...

[aimless]

Originally Posted by GenghisKhan44

Yes, that is my concern, too (it being rushed). But also... how the Hell do you kill someone by pushing them down the stairs? And how the Hell would that translate into murder charges? I don't think they were that draconian even in the USSR.

Since you ask, not that this is exactly Edna, here's how. Start at 2:30 if you want to cut to the action. Have you ever seen this, Timovieman?

[Fien]

If a game is as good as Edna and Harvey the developer can get away with murder, as far as I'm concerned.

The player never knew what hit him. (Final words of the game.)
Hehehe...

[ozzie]

I'm not sure if real life was such a big inspiration for Edna & Harvey.
The behaviour of the game's characters is rather removed from reality, as are the laws, the customs, the social norms and pretty much everything else about real societies. Sure, there are connections, but as far as the game is connected to reality and as far it isn't seems arbitrary. The game builds its own world with its own rules.

It found it odd when we were told that Edna's father was served with the death penalty. I implicitly thought that the game played in some cartoonish version of Germany, but there's no death penalty in Germany.

By the way, I remember reading in an interview that Poki wanted the player to be Edna's accomplice. You can't avoid a tragic ending, and it should feel as if it were as much your own fault as it were Edna's.

[GenghisKhan44]

Originally Posted by aimless

Since you ask, not that this is exactly Edna, here's how. Start at 2:30 if you want to cut to the action. Have you ever seen this, Timovieman?

Ah. I think I may see now. One doesn't usually think of a push down the stairs being that... violent. O_o

Originally Posted by ozzie

I'm not sure if real life was such a big inspiration for Edna & Harvey.
The behaviour of the game's characters is rather removed from reality, as are the laws, the customs, the social norms and pretty much everything else about real societies. Sure, there are connections, but as far as the game is connected to reality and as far it isn't seems arbitrary. The game builds its own world with its own rules.

This is true, as it is with games like it (the "Monkey Island" series, for example). Like, who locks a man in a mental hospital for wearing a BEE SUIT?

But most if not all of those kinds of deviations or simplifications of reality are usually played for laughs. I've never seen real life distorted solely for the sake of a mind-screw - like the example below:

It found it odd when we were told that Edna's father was served with the death penalty. I implicitly thought that the game played in some cartoonish version of Germany, but there's no death penalty in Germany.

This is the kind of thing - the father sacrificing his life for a daughter who, at worst, was guilty of manslaughter - that I don't get. There's nothing funny about a father taking a sentence much graver than the sentence his daughter would have had. It was never intended to be funny; it was played (fairly) straight and serious. It's not like Aluman's positive energy, or Peter's bean dip or the escape. It's illogical, but it's not being played for laughs.

Why, I wonder? Is there a real life reference to such an act taking place, of a father admitting guilt to a crime his daughter did, and not even on purpose? Is there some trope Poki invoked that I missed?

BTW, I heard that in the German version, the father was sentenced to life in prison, and died in prison. For some reason, that changed in the English version.

By the way, I remember reading in an interview that Poki wanted the player to be Edna's accomplice. You can't avoid a tragic ending, and it should feel as if it were as much your own fault as it were Edna's.

Despite the fact that I was only re-acting out what Edna was remembering...
... I do kinda feel that way for some odd reason. Maybe I should see a shrink...

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by aimless

Since you ask, not that this is exactly Edna, here's how. Start at 2:30 if you want to cut to the action. Have you ever seen this, Timovieman?

Never saw Kiss of Death, no. But it is on my list of movies I want to see.
Problem is: so are 13000 other titles...

[ozzie]

Originally Posted by GenghisKhan44

But most if not all of those kinds of deviations or simplifications of reality are usually played for laughs. I've never seen real life distorted solely for the sake of a mind-screw

Really? Never seen a David Lynch movie? I think you could sum up his method as "real life distorted solely for the sake of mind-screw". But reality is always distorted more or less in every kind of fiction. I think Transformers is also pretty far off from reality. Admittedly, this doesn't exclude the possibility that events in real life influenced these stories. For example, Blue Velvet from David Lynch was inspired by an event he witnessed. But I don't think it's possible to find out where the inspiration came from simply from playing a game, seeing a movie, reading a book...
Some parts of fiction may have been inspired by other fiction or made up.

Why, I wonder? Is there a real life reference to such an act taking place, of a father admitting guilt to a crime his daughter did, and not even on purpose? Is there some trope Poki invoked that I missed?

Maybe Poki simply felt that the death penalty might heighten the drama. Personally, I would've liked it if it were mentioned previously that, wherever the game takes place, death sentences are executed there.

BTW, I heard that in the German version, the father was sentenced to life in prison, and died in prison. For some reason, that changed in the English version.

Not in the German version that I played. Maybe it was changed for the special edition, but it seems unlikely.

Despite the fact that I was only re-acting out what Edna was remembering...
... I do kinda feel that way for some odd reason. Maybe I should see a shrink...

Nah. I think that's normal.
You do execute those actions, after all.
You don't have any choice, and if you don't perform the tasks, then the game won't move forward. We can only perform the tasks that we're told and allowed to do.
Maybe our mind feels that we still could've done it differently, even if we know rationally that it isn't the case. It's an interesting effect.

This might be a reflection of how people can feel in real life, when they're "only" performing actions they're told to do and therefore trying to relieve themselves of the moral repercussions of their actions, for example the guards who stood on the Berlin wall and shot everyone who tried to cross the border.
In the case of Edna, we could've always done nothing instead, I guess. Maybe we shouldn't have finished and simply quit before it got too bad.

[GenghisKhan44]

In the case of Edna, we could've always done nothing instead, I guess. Maybe we shouldn't have finished and simply quit before it got too bad.

In the end, though, it wasn't US that pushed Alfred down the chair. It was the cutscene. (Bad cutscene. How could you go and kill Alfred, you nasty automatic cutscene?)

But of course, you certainly could... repeat the same mistakes...

I really didn't like either ending. Both are bad. >.< But if we didn't choose either, we would not then be able to progress to "Harveys Neue Augen"... and go rape our minds some more. (I dunno why, but the mind-screwing is so fun.)

In hindsight though... it is just a little... flimsy.

Ah well.

And they had Mattis executed in the German version? I did not know that. Oddity of oddities...

A fun mind-screw all the same. Can't wait for HNA this spring.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by GenghisKhan44

I really didn't like either ending. Both are bad. >.< But if we didn't choose either, we would not then be able to progress to "Harveys Neue Augen"... and go rape our minds some more. (I dunno why, but the mind-screwing is so fun.)

I wouldn't call Harveys Neue Agen a sequel, although it does take place after the events in Edna and Harvey, and several characters make a short reappearance, including Edna and Dr. Marcel. But it's all about heroine Lily. Harvey plays an important but very different part.