[Oscar]

Let me just say that the gameplay system in Gabriel Knight 3 simply has to be the ultimate adventure gamers' wet dream. At least, it was for me! I thought it was brilliant when I first played it, and the beginning of a new mode of exploration for adventure games.

Think about it: You have a 3rd person character, you can move the camera to explore anywhere you want as if in 1st person, and in addition you have the traditional "look", "use", "take" etc of classic games. Aside from what I thought of GK3 (the plot, puzzles etc) the excitement of entering a new area and exploring watching the action from every angle was almost unrivalled. I don't think there has been a more immersive environment when you were exploring the French countryside alongside Gabriel. Yes, you weren't watching him walking around - you were doing the walking too!

But why hasn't it been used again? It's been over a decade since that game and I can't think of any game that has used a similar system. Has it been patented by Jensen? Too difficult to implement over static screens? I really feel that with the improvements in 3D graphics over the last decade the rather bland environments in GK3 could be transformed into something amazing to explore.

[Monolith]

It was a great idea, but it just felt like a spectator mode of an FPS with the addition of controlling the player like a point n click. It was way to confused between a first person detective game like Tex Murphy and a Point n Click adventure. I think it was the way it was executed that it just didn't feel right.

Its a system I'd love to see more of, but polished.

In game's like PnC Adventures, its usually a rule of thumb to always show the playable character on screen at all times when given control of the game. It also doesn't confuse the player when understand who is in control. Are you controlling yourself, yet controlling another character? It's a weird area in terms of adventure games, yet no different than in a third person shooter or rts.

[inm8#2]

I agree with the OP. I found the camera controls to be seamless. I don't get the hate for GK3's gameplay - it really was the best of both worlds for an AG at the time.

There was a nifty trick such that if your character was "far" from the object of interest in the environment, and you zoomed into that object while having the camera point away from Gabriel/Grace, it bypassed the walking to the point where the character is already right there. It didn't work if Gabriel/Grace was in the camera's peripheral vision, even with walls or structures obscuring their view. Did anybody else use this trick to quicken gameplay?

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by inm8#2

I agree with the OP. I found the camera controls to be seamless. I don't get the hate for GK3's gameplay - it really was the best of both worlds for an AG at the time.

There was a nifty trick such that if your character was "far" from the object of interest in the environment, and you zoomed into that object while having the camera point away from Gabriel/Grace, it bypassed the walking to the point where the character is already right there. It didn't work if Gabriel/Grace was in the camera's peripheral vision, even with walls or structures obscuring their view. Did anybody else use this trick to quicken gameplay?

Used it all the time. It made sense. It wasn't a glitch in any way. It was better than looking at the character and seeing them magically appear in front of you, which is usually a big no-no in 3d gaming and maybe 2d.

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by Monolith

It was a great idea, but it just felt like a spectator mode of an FPS with the addition of controlling the player like a point n click. It was way to confused between a first person detective game like Tex Murphy and a Point n Click adventure. I think it was the way it was executed that it just didn't feel right.

Its a system I'd love to see more of, but polished.

In game's like PnC Adventures, its usually a rule of thumb to always show the playable character on screen at all times when given control of the game. It also doesn't confuse the player when understand who is in control. Are you controlling yourself, yet controlling another character? It's a weird area in terms of adventure games, yet no different than in a third person shooter or rts.

I understand you, I can see how it may have felt weird and confusing to not really know who you're controlling. For me it felt like I was accompanying Gabriel on his journey, as a friend participating in the mystery with him. Often in 3rd person adventure games I feel awkward clicking on the other side of the screen and watching my character walk there as if I haven't already been there. I want to do the exploration, not him. It's not like I'm not looking at what's there already - I know I'm not him, and yet at the same time a game wants me to pretend I am him. GK3 is just a more immersive way of using your eyes to scan a static 2D screen - they aren't the character's eyes, they're yours.

[UPtimist]

I also completely loved it. Best interface I've used. Also great points about it (and as someone said, the whole jumping close to the camera thing was a result of very good design - I think I actually read somewhere how they came to have it).

As for why it wasn't used more - I suspect that for AG developers it's not a cheap system. You need full 3D, which is of course not what AGs tend to use (and so much more expensive than the 2Ds and 2,5Ds that do use) and for full 3D you need a very different level of detail and graphics in the modern day for it to have an acceptable level of graphic quality. That's really expensive. I suspect that if there were high profile AGs, and they had the kind of budgets other games do, this interface would be utilized more.

[AndreaDraco83]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

Best interface I've used.

I wholeheartedly agree!

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by UPtimist

I also completely loved it. Best interface I've used. Also great points about it (and as someone said, the whole jumping close to the camera thing was a result of very good design - I think I actually read somewhere how they came to have it).

As for why it wasn't used more - I suspect that for AG developers it's not a cheap system. You need full 3D, which is of course not what AGs tend to use (and so much more expensive than the 2Ds and 2,5Ds that do use) and for full 3D you need a very different level of detail and graphics in the modern day for it to have an acceptable level of graphic quality. That's really expensive. I suspect that if there were high profile AGs, and they had the kind of budgets other games do, this interface would be utilized more.

Good point. Yet it doesn't seem like it would be much more difficult to do than say, Memento Mori, which has 3D environments but the camera automatically (and somewhat annoyingly) follows the player around. I think Sam & Max Devil's Playground did the same thing.

[colpet]

I loved it. It allowed me to play the game from a mostly 1st person perspective. For me this was far more immersive.

[Schneckchen ^.^]

When I last played it, I remember the controls as being fairly clunky. However, I'm playing through all the GK games again right now and will be on the 3rd one again soon. Maybe the interface won't be as bad as I remember.

When it comes to exploration though, I love the first person perspective of the new Frogwares Sherlock Holmes games. It actually feels like you're investigating the scenes.

[Arial Type]

Originally Posted by Oscar

But why hasn't it been used again?

I think this has something to do with other developers not having spare $4.5 million to spend on the engine development Most adventure games that came after GK3 don't even have a decent 2D engine or a good design to speak of. It put an end to a golden era of cat hair moustaches...

[Oscar]

Originally Posted by Arial Type

I think this has something to do with other developers not having spare $4.5 million to spend on the engine development Most adventure games that came after GK3 don't even have a decent 2D engine or a good design to speak of. It put an end to a golden era of cat hair moustaches...

If only there were something like Wintermute for 3D environments. Well, there's this: http://3das.noeska.com/

An editor for creating adventure games in style of Gabriel Knight 3. It consists of two parts:

An editor: To allow you to create your own 3D Adenture games
A runtime engine: To play games created with 3D Adventure Studio

[Monolith]

Or just use Unity or UDK for the latest bleeding edge technology.

[SuperEdy]

Not to mention the free graphic engine OGRE (Ankh, Jack Keane, Black Sails, Haunted...).
I think the GK3 interface would be a bad choice from a marketing point of view, it's not first neither third person, it's not intuitive and it would confuse the average player; Gabriel Knight was a beloved character, Sierra could take a risk with an innovative control system but modern adventures can't afford that luxury and have to use more traditional interfaces (after all there are a lot of complaints about games that play differently like Grim Fandango or eXperience112)
That doesn't mean I don't like that camera system, it just takes a while to get used to

[Andromus]

Nice to see some other people liked GK3's controls, I've always found myself almost alone in liking it whenever it gets mentioned. I loved the freedom of viewpoint, flitting about almost ghost like.

[Monolith]

What do you guys think of changing the free-fly camera movement into lets say a gravity constrained first person version. It would feel a lot more exploration than flying a spy bee around the scenes.

I really think this style of camera could be evolved into a more polished and lively system. Like seamless camera transitions from static to movement to dynamic. Hard to explain really.

[RockNFknRoll]

i love GK3 in every way, including the gameplay system. i thought it was brilliant and should've ushered in a new era of AG's. instead it seems like the last of the golden era.

i really like Sherlock Holmes 1st person view as well. i love the feeling of discovering clues on your own like that, rather than a static screen with obvious hotspots.