[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Cuhroooonchy

Sky can be wooed (also by both girls and boys)...

Oh dear sweet baby jeezus!!! I can't wait to meet him then, because now I'm on my third playthrough, but as the bonus Monk character (male). But there is a potential situation: if as a male you get to romance Zu Sky, will they still show the kissing scene in Dirge? feisar, you reading this?

...enough of the story got to me that despite my initial intentions to be bad, as I began to see how deep the rabbit hole went I couldn't help but reform my ways.

Are you all right? That's not like you.

[Crunchy in milk]

No, its not like me... I usually enjoy the cheap thrills of being bad for bad's sake but this time around it seems Bioware have some good writers. The people if a little bit stereotypical seemed more real and I loved... LOVED the world. I was really picking up on the commentary on the nature of man perverting the knowledge and power of the gods so that man can wield it but never truly understand it or use it wisely. I'm not religious but I loved the philosophical smack talk to science, the importance of mysticism and even the social order stuff about finding and accepting your role in it or shaping it and taking the consequences.

As I said, I wasted time on Saggy-Zu that first run through, he can't be romanced and you should know why...

Spoiler:

he never makes it to Dirge, he's croaked by Deaths Hand in the golem factory, When I was on the other side of death as predicted by the water dragon's very *first* speech to you in the spirit cave, I was running everywhere looking for him and then hoping she would offer to bring him back too as payment for restoring her to the wheel of life, alas

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

As I said, I wasted time on Saggy-Zu that first run through, he can't be romanced and you should know why...

Spoiler:

he never makes it to Dirge, he's croaked by Deaths Hand in the golem factory, When I was on the other side of death as predicted by the water dragon's very *first* speech to you in the spirit cave, I was running everywhere looking for him and then hoping she would offer to bring him back too as payment for restoring her to the wheel of life, alas

Oops, sorry, my bad. I actually meant Sky.

[Crunchy in milk]

Well let me know if you have success wooing him. I'll get around to talking to Silk Fox eventually, 'Ravenous Beaver' is too busy destroying the lives of the people in Tien's Landing. I love breaking Minister Sheng's spirit and am looking forward to the final nail for his coffin in the Imperial City. After saving the world a couple of times now I feel a little better about grinding it under my heel this time.

According to some disgruntled posters on the official boards, romancing sky with the Monk Zen character can cause bugs right at the

Spoiler:

kiss

. The conversation stalls out and you cannot complete the game...

I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't happen to you.

[SoccerDude28]

I'm almost done with Jade Empire, and I have to say, it's definitely a step back from KOTOR. The fighting is simplistic (with the sword, I managed to kill every single person), and for spirits I used martial arts. All I did was evade with B, hit AAA and when they block hit X. It's that easy and you can beat them all the time even at the Master level. There's no inventory, no special skills like stealth, your followers are useless (most of the time they die right away) and you can only control your character (in KOTOR you get to control 3 characters and switch between them).

It suffers from excruciating load times (30 seconds) whenever you go from one scene to the other (which is very often). Also there is so much reading (if you think The Longest Journey has reading play this one), and too much dialog.

On the positive side, the setting is wonderful, the amount of research put into making this game is amazing, and the story and characters are intriguing. Most of the stories of your characters are better than KOTOR's. And of course we have the twist

I had Silk Fox and Dawn Star fight for me, but I went with Dawn Star. I was torn between the 2, and I kinda wanted both but I ended up choosing the lovely Dawn Star. Whoever plays it, make sure you speak with the little girl. You'll see a pleasant surprise.

[SoccerDude28]

Question: How do you perform a harmonic combo? I really tried many times but it didn't seem to work. Any ideas?

[sideburnmania]

I hate to rain on your parade, but I couldn't get into Jade Empire. The combat is great but the storyline hasn't grabbed me at all. It's probably the setting, I liked the Asian contemporary setting in Shenmue, I guess I've never been a history buff or liked "the past". Looks like i'll put putting my copy on ebay or trading it in.

Speaking of rpg's I got The Bard's Tale on ps2 today for only $34.95 (AU). Well it's more of an action/rpg but it's supposed to have a great sense of humour and somewhat of a satire on other rpg's.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

I'm almost done with Jade Empire, and I have to say, it's definitely a step back from KOTOR. The fighting is simplistic (with the sword, I managed to kill every single person), and for spirits I used martial arts. All I did was evade with B, hit AAA and when they block hit X. It's that easy and you can beat them all the time even at the Master level. There's no inventory, no special skills like stealth, your followers are useless (most of the time they die right away) and you can only control your character (in KOTOR you get to control 3 characters and switch between them).

Which difficulty setting did you play it on?

Question: How do you perform a harmonic combo? I really tried many times but it didn't seem to work. Any ideas?

A hamonic combo can be initiated using a support style (i.e., the X button), then followed up with some straightforward attacks and finished off with a power attack. Think of it as a strategic train of hits. For example, successfully freeze an enemy with Paralyzing Palm, then while he's motionless pummel him with Thousand Cuts, and finish him off with a powered up Dire Flame.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Which difficulty setting did you play it on?

Master which is the normal difficulty level.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Try it playing the entirety of the Arena on Grand Master.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

A hamonic combo can be initiated using a support style (i.e., the X button), then followed up with some straightforward attacks and finished off with a power attack. Think of it as a strategic train of hits. For example, successfully freeze an enemy with Paralyzing Palm, then while he's motionless pummel him with Thousand Cuts, and finish him off with a powered up Dire Flame.

What I did was used the power attack of the stone immortal (which according to its description initiates a harmonic combo). Then I switched to thousand cuts and pressed X (power attack). I thought he would shatter the opponent but that never happened. Are you saying After I immobolize the opponent, I press A several times in a martial style BEFORE I press X? And Trepsie how do you combine different martial styles into one string?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Remember, it also depends on how much XP you've spent on given styles. Combining various styles in one harmonic combo is as easy as switching between styles in combat.

[UPtimist]

You can check each style's description to see what part (if any) it plays in harmonic combos. There are the ones that initiate harmonic combos, usually, or always with either the area or power attack. They're usually support, and maybe magic styles. Then there are the ones that can finish, though I also never was quite sure how to finish... Though there's that timer circle that appears under the feet of the opponent that can be, eh, comboed, and you must finish while it's running... It's with a power attack, but I'm not excactly sure whether you can hit with normal attacks... But I guess Trep might know better?

You probably knew all that, but well...

[Crunchy in milk]

Harmonics aren't exactly instant kills. Some guy's have lots of health so starting a harmonic combo on them with a support or magic style (like ice shard) won't always work right off the bat. Sometimes you have to beat them down a little. At the start most grunts will be easy enough to harmonic from the get go but later some require 'whittling'.

If you get the dashed yellow circle around the target's feet (in target mode, it wont show in free target mode) then the combo has begun. Then you just have to press X in your choice of martial attack. You don't have to hit them with any default attack and it doesn't matter what martial style you use to complete the combo. The support or magic style you use determines what 'powerup' drops as a result, so long as you don't have any gems equipped that reduce or completely remove the possibility of them appearing in combat. Heavenly Wave results in a health powerup (and a nice bloody explosion of the opponent), whereas Storm Dragon will net you a focus powerup and Ice Shard a Chi powerup.

The great thing about harmonics too is that they seem to heal your partner as well. If your companion is dying, pulling off a heavenly wave combo to yield a health combo can heal them some. Of course that's not a problem if you take Hou along for the ride and be a drunken master. You can't upgrade the style but it does the most damage of all martial styles anyway and looks hilarious.

With that in mind, certain opponents can never be harmonic combo'ed. Bosses can't be, and most 'Lieutenants' can't be (certain mob groups have one tough guy usually with different martial style to differentiate them). They also won't work in non fatal combat so never in the arena battles.

I found the sword overpowered too, but at max damage its quite easy to decapitate opponents which looks amazing. There needs to be more play balance for any sequel for sure, focus is king in this game, I'd love to see the roll reduce focus to the point where if its all gone, you can't dodge anymore, only block. If you're finding the combat dull you CAN improve it yourself rather than waiting for a sequel. Don't use weapons at all. I had a blast making a guy with two martial styles, two support styles and a transformation, and just stacking body and spirit.

If you really want a weapon though, and longer drawn out battles then pick the staff (its quite weak in damage) and moderate or completely avoid upgrading anything but its focus use.

[UPtimist]

You know, now the philosophies are clearly open palm - good, closed fist - bad. When they were explained for the first few times, I thought that closed fist didn't have to be at all that bad. So I think it would be really cool if and when they make JE2, they would have, instead of the vertical 1D-good/bad-diagram, they'd have a 2D diagram, with both good and bad versions of both philosophies (or two separate diagrams with the other marking the philosophy and the other if you're 'good' or 'bad'). At least I can see the Closed Fist as a 'good' philosophy too. And though it's harder, you could see Open Palm being 'bad' too...

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

Well let me know if you have success wooing him. I'll get around to talking to Silk Fox eventually, 'Ravenous Beaver' is too busy destroying the lives of the people in Tien's Landing. I love breaking Minister Sheng's spirit and am looking forward to the final nail for his coffin in the Imperial City. After saving the world a couple of times now I feel a little better about grinding it under my heel this time.

According to some disgruntled posters on the official boards, romancing sky with the Monk Zen character can cause bugs right at the

Spoiler:

kiss

. The conversation stalls out and you cannot complete the game...

I'm crossing my fingers it doesn't happen to you.

I'm currently replaying using the Furious Ming guy (I named him big R ). But so far all I keep getting from Sky is that I should pay more attention to Dawn Star. Dammit!!! Does this mean Sky's not interested?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

I'm currently replaying using the Furious Ming guy (I named him big R ). But so far all I keep getting from Sky is that I should pay more attention to Dawn Star. Dammit!!! Does this mean Sky's not interested?

Hey I was Furious Ming. Don't you just love that dragon tattoo on his hot bod Man I now kinda regret not going for Silk fox instead of going for dawn star. Silk fox is way more hot, now that I think about it. Trepsie, did you try the neutral ending?

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Silk Fox is bitchy, reminds me too much of Bastila.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Silk Fox is bitchy, reminds me too much of Bastila.

Yeah she wants to order Ming around, kinda like my type of girl

[Crunchy in milk]

Well I just had a glorious run through as a dark maiden. I set up the Scholar Ling player model is "Peerless Pei Liu" (Abundant Pleasure) and stacked chi and focus. On Grandmaster difficulty it was a nightmare in some battles but storywise, a joy. I find a lot of the closed fist philosophy makes sense and loved some of the options I got to take, but others where played up as extremely evil and didn't match my own intentions/reasons for seeking a particular outcome (which I felt still held true to the closed fist path).

Some of what the game would have you do as a closed fist advocate is truly evil. Especially from Dirge onwards. I loved that Bioware let you do this. Up to then your closed fist nature has only effected remote npcs such as Imperial Minister Sheng, but from Dirge onwards your close knit group starts to unwind.

Spoiler:

The 'big decision' was a true joy that could only have been even sweeter if you where given the option to sacrifice the one you've been romancing up till then... How gutwrenching would that have been to watch their reaction. I sat there with the list of choices as it was for minutes trying to choose. From a roleplaying perspective I *had* to pick Dawn Star but wow what a decision At first I thought binding her, Sky and Hou (silly option) to my will after stealing Master Li's toy and making him my own was bad, and then the water dragon offers up that doosey.

This time through I really focused on the other side of the argument. In the end I tended to agree with the agressive nature of Li and Hai's plan to defeat the drought. If the god's really did bring about the long drought to bring an end to the empire, why not fight them tooth and nail? Would you rather give up and die?

After watching the closed fist ending It struck me that allowing the water dragon to be reborn in the open palm ending (thus removing the supply of endless water) they never cover the return of the drought in the epilogues. You might be returning the power of the gods to those that understand it, but with that decision you should also have doomed the Empire to the drought once more, making it vulnerable for invasion/retribution from the nations that suffered as a result of the water dragon's imprisonment. I guess they went for cut and dry good/bad endings though A real shame.

Romancing Silk Fox is pretty dull, she is very caught up with the mission and has little time for talk, so much so that in one conversation you decide if she becomes open palm or closed fist (as suits your own nature), and in one more, your expression of interest is measured and evaluated and then ignored till the 'one final thing' chat before a certain battle.

Should I go through the game again, It'll be as a guy romancing Dawn Star. I've avoided her the first two times through because I don't dig on her small town whiny farm girl act so I'll either play as a heavy fisted, kind hearted, dim bulb of a drunk fawning all over her, or as another closed fist run through, trying to re-educate her (I hear she becomes more interesting as she embraces a closed fist nature).