[Kolorabi]

This is the blog of the wife of an EA employee. It's a pretty amazing read.

http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/

[Starflux]

I know, I've been spreading this thing the whole evening everwhere I can on the internet. People need to see how f*cked up EA is. And maybe decide that they don't want to buy their games anymore. Not like anyone needed yet another reason to avoid their saltless games like the plague...

[Catbert]

WE JUST LAUNCHED FIFA, IT HAS 10 NEW FACES AND THAT'S IT!

I hate EA. It's not that the games are bad per se, it's that they give 0 support to the ones they launch and don't innovate them enough (just look at EA sports), ever. Then again, why the hell should they? As long as the average consumer has the IQ of a golfball, they'll still sell games pretty easily with no innovation or risks involved. And now that they got Criterion and their middleware, prepare for worse. Some people really don't deserve their money, sheesh.

Edit: 0 support = want a patch? Nah, we'll release a new game the next year, just wait for it and PAY PAY PAY.

[Ninja Dodo]

This is not entirely uncommon though.

IGDA - Quality of Life White Paper

Boycotting EA specifically may be a bit pointless, though certainly avoiding it like the plague for employment opportunities seems sensible.

[SoccerDude28]

Saying that EA sux and boycotting them for how long their employees work is the biggest piece of bull crap I have heard. My friend works in MS, and he has friends in the XBOX team. He tells me how hard they work their asses off. Game development is hard labor, and It took me 2 months by myself to build a version of battleship so having one year to produce a title is no piece of cake. I read about how long people in midway worked on MK deception and in crunch time, they took turns to sleep with each person sleeping about an hour a day. EA is right, you don't like it go somewhere else, coz everywhere else is the same. That is why I'm working in a big corporation that has nothing to do with games, where they pay me double what they pay these guys, and I spend my day chatting with you guys on these forums

[Catbert]

What's wrong with boycotting games? I wouldn't boycott their games even if they used child labour, but I'd boycott them if the games are all the same with little to no innovation at all, even with running times in the order of 11 years like the FIFA series. There's nothing wrong with that.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Catbert

What's wrong with boycotting games? I wouldn't boycott their games even if they used child labour, but I'd boycott them if the games are all the same with little to no innovation at all, even with running times in the order of 11 years like the FIFA series. There's nothing wrong with that.

No I have nothing against boycotting their games if you think that they suck or that they crash all the time. I was just saying that it is silly to boycott their games for the sole reason that their employees work hard, coz then, you'll have to boycott the games of every gaming publisher out there.

[Catbert]

Totally agreed. Although I'd say their games rarely crash, I'll give them that. Then again, they have a whole year to work on that every... year.

[Ninja Dodo]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

EA is right, you don't like it go somewhere else, coz everywhere else is the same.

What kind of an attitude is that?

That's the reason the games industry is so messed up, because people think it's cool to work yourself to death and retire when you're thirty just because you get to make games...

And you're wrong, not all games companies are like that. There are plenty that manage to both treat their workers with respect and run a succesful business. Read the white paper. There's a lot of scary stuff in there, but also light at the end of the tunnel. Saying "don't like it go somewhere else" isn't going to get anyone there though.

[Ninja Dodo]

Also, providing of course these allegations are true, what EA is doing isn't just both morally wrong and (long-term) stupid... it's illegal.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

And you're wrong, not all games companies are like that. There are plenty that manage to both treat their workers with respect and run a succesful business.

Well can you name a few to me where people don't really work their asses off? I know the XBOX team in MS do, EA do, Midway do. I can point you to the magazine and the article where Ed Boon the lead of MK Deception says that literally in crunch time everyone including him, had shifts in which they slept for very short dozes to get the thing out and meet the deadline. Making games is a multi-billion dollar industry that tops even hollywood in sales. So to be competitive you have to do what these companies are doing. Also forget about big publishers, have you read how long the people of Id software worked to get DOOM 3 out of the door. You know some people play these games and forget how complex they are. Games are some of the most complex pieces of software, and unless you do what these companies do, you will file for chapter 11.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Well can you name a few to me where people don't really work their asses off? I know the XBOX team in MS do, EA do, Midway do. I can point you to the magazine and the article where Ed Boon the lead of MK Deception says that literally in crunch time everyone including him, had shifts in which they slept for very short dozes to get the thing out and meet the deadline. Making games is a multi-billion dollar industry that tops even hollywood in sales. So to be competitive you have to do what these companies are doing. Also forget about big publishers, have you read how long the people of Id software worked to get DOOM 3 out of the door. You know some people play these games and forget how complex they are. Games are some of the most complex pieces of software, and unless you do what these companies do, you will file for chapter 11.

And if you think people in the US work, go work for a Japanese company. Good luck seeing your family there.

[Ninja Dodo]

You do realize there is a difference between crunch time in the final stages of a project to meet a deadline and deliberate never-ending crunch time that has no purpose other than to cut costs... right? Did you actually read the EA article?

Also "well, the other guy does it" isn't a very valid reason to do something unreasonable, in my opinion.

As for good practice, the white paper didn't go into examples of specific companies as it was mostly an anonymous affair, but clearly there are ways to minimize stress and absurd work loads. The games industry really needs a union.

[Ninja Dodo]

Ooh! EXAMPLE TIME...

I was just reading the uni forums and someone mentioned that one of our fellow students who's now doing a placement at Rare said he pretty much works 9 to 5. So there you go.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

You do realize there is a difference between crunch time in the final stages of a project to meet a deadline and deliberate never-ending crunch time that has no purpose other than to cut costs... right? Did you actually read the EA article?

I read it, and they do work hard throughout. Not only the last week. I was just mentioning the last week to show you the extreme, but they leave the office late pretty much on a regular basis. EA is not the exception like you are making it sound, but more like the rule in gaming companies (At least in the US). My friend in MS told me about the XBOX team and how long they work. It is a very popular job, and there is more supply than demand.

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

Also "well, the other guy does it" isn't a very valid reason to do something unreasonable, in my opinion.

If you wanna be competitive it is.

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

I was just reading the uni forums and someone mentioned that one of our fellow students who's now doing a placement at Rare said he pretty much works 9 to 5. So there you go.

I have never even heard of Rare. Plus maybe it is different in the UK I dunno but I know how it is in American companies.

[SoccerDude28]

Oh and America is not the only one. Ubi Montreal employees also worked their asses off on the POP Warrior within project. Think about it, have you seen how pretty POP: Warrior Within is? They developed the whole thing in 1 year.
They either have to be geniuses or they are busting their asses, and in an article I read recently, they are busting their asses.

[Erkki]

One thing I don't understand about this is -- how does it work? I'm a programmer and some of my friends are programmers (not games, but business to business, databases and so on) and every one of them is saying that long periods of overtime simply don't do any good -- not for the workers, not for the company. My personal experience is that working 12 hours a day for one month turned me sick for almost the entire next month. And I definitely wasn't doing my best work during that period. I wasn't able to focus on anything but the current small task at hand, thus creating some of the most horrible code ever.

I haven't read that article yet, but what it sounds like from comments is that this should burn any person out pretty soon. Or are game developers different people?

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

If you wanna be competitive it is.

If you have to break the laws to be competitive, you have no business being in the games industry.

And EA, btw, have higher profits than anyone else in the industry. It's not as if they need to do this to stay afloat.

[Kolorabi]

Related news:

"EA workers readying class action lawsuit against EA"

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11...s_6112998.html

[Starflux]

Soccerdude28, you seem to have no problems with using up humans as expendable resources, just like EA. Here's hoping that you'll NEVER get in a position that you decide whether to abuse your employees or not. Because with people like you, things are going to remain rotten in the industry.