The Revenge Thread

mag · 07-22-2005, 11:15 AM

The Virtues of Vengeance by Peter A. French

So I've been reading [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700610766//ref=nosim/adventuregame-20 book[/URL] by Peter A. French about the morality of revenge. Basically, he argues that, as opposed to what most moral philosophers have said, vengeance is not always bad and does have an important place in society. That got me thinking about the ethical implications of revenge. I figured I'd start this thread to see what the rest of you think.

Is revenge always a bad thing? What are your own views on the subject? Or do you just have a good tale of vengeance that you'd like to share? Now is your chance to let loose.

mag

Intrepid Homoludens · 07-22-2005, 01:28 PM

Living well is the best form of revenge.

07-22-2005, 01:36 PM

Yes, vengence leads to the Dark Side.

Watcher of the skies · 07-22-2005, 02:17 PM

Please, remember to always serve cold.

Mike

Ninja Dodo · 07-22-2005, 02:45 PM

It's made great films like Braveheart and Kill Bill, so it can't be all bad...

Spoiler:
Actually, it doesn't solve anything...

Intrepid Homoludens · 07-22-2005, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

Spoiler:
Actually, it doesn't solve anything...

Try telling that to Beatrix Kiddo.

RLacey · 07-22-2005, 02:59 PM

Why have revenge when you can have The Avengers?

But seriously, revenge rarely (if ever?) serves a useful purpose.

[toj.cc]Phantom · 07-22-2005, 03:18 PM

Okay, I don't think revenge is right in all cases, but what if it isn't revenge? What if it is justice say in The Punishers case? (please don't bash the comics, I liked the movie but don't care if you bash it)

07-22-2005, 03:25 PM

Great comic. Sick of all the do-gooders sometimes. Anyway, I agree revenge is okay to the extent.

beat!the!champ! · 07-22-2005, 04:01 PM

Who's to judge when it's ok to exact vengeance? You can't leave it to individuals.

[toj.cc]Phantom · 07-22-2005, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beat!the!champ!

Who's to judge when it's ok to exact vengeance? You can't leave it to individuals.

See, you said vengeance, not punishment, vengeance is an emotional action, punishment isn't it is a valid motive. Sometimes justice can't be exacted by a group of people because they are blind to whats truly just and what is really just. (i.e. Justice is blind)

__________________________________________________ __

This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice. ~Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

The trouble with the laws these days is that criminals know their rights better than their wrongs. ~Author Unknown

There is plenty of law at the end of a nightstick. ~Grover Whalen

We don't give our criminals much punishment, but we sure give 'em plenty of publicity. ~Will Rogers

He who does not punish evil commands it to be done. ~Leonardo da Vinci

The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them. ~Lois McMaster Bujold

mag · 07-22-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Punisher

In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No. Not vengeance. Punishment.

The Punisher is t3h awesome. Although, I'm not sure how accurate that distinction between vengeance and punishment is.

As for when it's okay to exact revenge, vengeance is typically taken when the party that has been offended has no other means available to them of seeing justice done. Vengeance can be taken too far. But just about anything can be taken too far, and we don't consider those things to be bad ALL the time. They are only bad in excess.

mag

beat!the!champ! · 07-22-2005, 05:57 PM

Ok lemme try it again.

Who's to judge when it's ok to "punish" and offender when legal justice isn't met? You can't leave it to individuals.

mag · 07-22-2005, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beat!the!champ!

Ok lemme try it again.

Who's to judge when it's ok to "punish" and offender when legal justice isn't met? You can't leave it to individuals.

Why not?

mag

beat!the!champ! · 07-22-2005, 06:22 PM

Some people have a skewed sense of what is just.

[toj.cc]Phantom · 07-22-2005, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beat!the!champ!

Some people have a skewed sense of what is just.

And groups of people can't? Haven't you read the books;

A Lesson Before Dying

and

To Kill A Mockingbird

Soemtimes groups fo people aren't any better then an individual.

beat!the!champ! · 07-22-2005, 06:42 PM

I'm not saying justice is always served and committees are always right.

I'm saying that allowing individuals to take matters into their own hands can invite more chaos. In some cases, it would seem justified. But in many cases of "revenge", it wouldn't.

em-deecee · 07-22-2005, 07:09 PM

Doesn't revenge wreak havoc on one's karma?

Watcher of the skies · 07-22-2005, 09:09 PM

My karma ran over your dogma.

Mike

gillyruless · 07-23-2005, 04:01 PM

I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word.

-Martin Luther King JR.

Love and forgiveness rule over hatred and vengeance. Any time, any day, any where. That is all.

07-22-2005, 11:15 AM	#1
mag Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,913	The Revenge Thread The Virtues of Vengeance by Peter A. French So I've been reading [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700610766//ref=nosim/adventuregame-20 book[/URL] by Peter A. French about the morality of revenge. Basically, he argues that, as opposed to what most moral philosophers have said, vengeance is not always bad and does have an important place in society. That got me thinking about the ethical implications of revenge. I figured I'd start this thread to see what the rest of you think. Is revenge always a bad thing? What are your own views on the subject? Or do you just have a good tale of vengeance that you'd like to share? Now is your chance to let loose. mag Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 01:28 PM	#2
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Living well is the best form of revenge. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

07-22-2005, 01:36 PM	#3
SamNMax Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, vengence leads to the Dark Side. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 02:17 PM	#4
Watcher of the skies Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 176	Please, remember to always serve cold. Mike Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 02:45 PM	#5
Ninja Dodo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,459	It's made great films like Braveheart and Kill Bill, so it can't be all bad... Spoiler: Actually, it doesn't solve anything... Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 02:59 PM	#7
RLacey The Thread™ will die. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 22,542	Why have revenge when you can have The Avengers? But seriously, revenge rarely (if ever?) serves a useful purpose. Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ RLacey \| Killer of the Thread™ I do not change to be perfect. Perfect changes to be me.

07-22-2005, 03:18 PM	#8
[toj.cc]Phantom The Punisher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Pleasant Plain, Ohio Posts: 771	Okay, I don't think revenge is right in all cases, but what if it isn't revenge? What if it is justice say in The Punishers case? (please don't bash the comics, I liked the movie but don't care if you bash it) Share Share this post on Twitter __________________ I've got a bad rap as a senseless killer. Let me point out that I am a very sensible killer.

07-22-2005, 03:25 PM	#9
SamNMax Guest Posts: n/a	Great comic. Sick of all the do-gooders sometimes. Anyway, I agree revenge is okay to the extent. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 04:01 PM	#10
beat!the!champ! Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 237	Who's to judge when it's ok to exact vengeance? You can't leave it to individuals. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 05:57 PM	#13
beat!the!champ! Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 237	Ok lemme try it again. Who's to judge when it's ok to "punish" and offender when legal justice isn't met? You can't leave it to individuals. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 06:22 PM	#15
beat!the!champ! Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 237	Some people have a skewed sense of what is just. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 06:42 PM	#17
beat!the!champ! Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 237	I'm not saying justice is always served and committees are always right. I'm saying that allowing individuals to take matters into their own hands can invite more chaos. In some cases, it would seem justified. But in many cases of "revenge", it wouldn't. Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 07:09 PM	#18
em-deecee just visiting Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Heart of Dixie Posts: 187	Doesn't revenge wreak havoc on one's karma? Share Share this post on Twitter

07-22-2005, 09:09 PM	#19
Watcher of the skies Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 176	My karma ran over your dogma. Mike Share Share this post on Twitter

07-23-2005, 04:01 PM	#20
gillyruless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,022	I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word. -Martin Luther King JR. Love and forgiveness rule over hatred and vengeance. Any time, any day, any where. That is all. Share Share this post on Twitter

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