[pinkgothic]

Good lord, that thread on the other forum is so full of flaming I think I'm going blind... "You have a very poor understanding" is etched into my mind similarily how a music piece might be an earbug. Sheesh. Are this place and my forum the only 'net locations where one can have a mature debate?

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Are this place and my forum the only 'net locations where one can have a mature debate?

What poor understanding you have...







me

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Are this place and my forum the only 'net locations where one can have a mature debate?

I suggest taking a look at The DIVIDE, or the official "The Longest Journey" forums. We can have mature debates.


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[Glenn Epic]

No. We did not land on the moon. Neil Armstrong and his crew did though

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by Glenn Epic

No. We did not land on the moon. Neil Armstrong and his crew did though

All except Michael Collins. He just orbited the moon.


But he got a (small) crater named after him, and a star on the Walk of Fame.

Still, that must have really sucked, flying all the way to the moon, and then not even setting foot on it.


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[Hammerite]

when they 'landed on the moon' the flag sort of waves, which would be impossible on the moon due to the fact that there is no air or wind.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

when they 'landed on the moon' the flag sort of waves, which would be impossible on the moon due to the fact that there is no air or wind.

That was because they had a horizontal bar to stretch out the flag. And if you move the pole, the flag moves too, making it appear to wave.


Come on people, this is COMMON SENSE. I knew these facts when I was about eight years old. How stupid do you believe NASA to be, not to think about those things?


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[Hammerite]

i'm just paranoid.

[sethsez]

Why aren't you paranoid about the documentaries that provide shaky evidence, then?

[log p]

i remember as a child reading books talking about how in 20 years or somethin we would have space colonies and moon apartments and such dreams...now i realize some dont even believe man set foot on the moon to begin with but that it may have been a stage prop out of some shitty charleton heston movie so i tear up knowing i will ever be confined to an earthly prison until the creators beem me up into the heavenly jungle where i shall be the silver-hued monkey...forever

[Huz]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

Good lord, that thread on the other forum is so full of flaming I think I'm going blind... "You have a very poor understanding" is etched into my mind similarily how a music piece might be an earbug. Sheesh. Are this place and my forum the only 'net locations where one can have a mature debate?

Here's some information on why you're retarded.

Only kidding! (Great response by mercatfat though, you have to admit!) This forum is great compared to others on the 'net - similarly respectful and stimulating ones do exist, but they're quite few and far between. LucasForums in particular is full of either

a) complete cretins
b) self-important arseholes

Watching the two groups collide is great fun though.

This forum is great compared to others on the 'net

I don't know about that. I was a regular on Lucasforums a few years ago. Now that I look back on all those forum members spending so much time and energy to argue with one-another with the longest posts you would ever read (See Meksilon's posts on the thread above)...

They really weren't proving their point with those boring, long-winded posts anyway. Who would actually take someone who writes those posts seriously? It's all very childish and I'm glad to have found a new home here.

[LauraMac]

Oh man - I thought THIS was the moon. And I know we all landed here for some reason err we weren't shipped were we ??

*spreading more seeds of paranoia as she skips away*

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by LauraMac

Oh man - I thought THIS was the moon. And I know we all landed here for some reason err we weren't shipped were we ??

*spreading more seeds of paranoia as she skips away*

No, actually we live on a giant computer, which we are part of.


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[Hammerite]

now HERES a sane person!!

[Fop]

It's not that hard Get Orbiter and try it yourself

[pinkgothic]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

What poor understanding you have...

Originally Posted by Huz

Here's some information on why you're retarded.

Originally Posted by Huz

[...] Watching the two groups collide is great fun though.

*death by laughter* Thanks guys. I needed that.

[Jazhara7]

Originally Posted by pinkgothic

*death by laughter* Thanks guys. I needed that.

Eeeep! It's the living dead! ZOMBIES!!!!!!!

Get the Guns!


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[Stoofa]

God I love conspiracy theories. Not that I believe most of them, but they are HIGHLY amusing.

My grandfather is a crackpot and believes all of this stuff wholeheartedly, to the point where his beliefs contradict one another. He really thinks that a superior race of reptile alien beings are pretending to be people and running the human race (Dick Cheney anyone?) but then he also believes in Thetans and all of that Scientology bunk. He doesn't really talk about anything but this stuff and the "facts" that he learned from people like Art Bell. Once I interrupted him to ask, "So does this mean the Illuminati are all reptiles?" and now he thinks I am a genius.

[jjacob]

Yes, we did

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast23feb_2.htm
(NASA's response)

According to the show NASA was a blundering movie producer thirty years ago. For example, Conspiracy Theory pundits pointed out a seeming discrepancy in Apollo imagery: Pictures of astronauts transmitted from the Moon don't include stars in the dark lunar sky -- an obvious production error! What happened? Did NASA film-makers forget to turn on the constellations? Most photographers already know the answer: It's difficult to capture something very bright and something else very dim on the same piece of film -- typical emulsions don't have enough "dynamic range." Astronauts striding across the bright lunar soil in their sunlit spacesuits were literally dazzling. Setting a camera with the proper exposure for a glaring spacesuit would naturally render background stars too faint to see.
Here's another one: Pictures of Apollo astronauts erecting a US flag on the Moon show the flag bending and rippling. How can that be? After all, there's no breeze on the Moon....
Not every waving flag needs a breeze -- at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who's set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples -- no breeze required!
Left: Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin deploy a U.S. flag on the Moon in 1969. [ more]
The Fox documentary went on with plenty more specious points. You can find detailed rebuttals to each of them at BadAstronomy.com and the Moon Hoax web page. (These are independent sites, not sponsored by NASA.)
The best rebuttal to allegations of a "Moon Hoax," however, is common sense. Evidence that the Apollo program really happened is compelling: A dozen astronauts (laden with cameras) walked on the Moon between 1969 and 1972. Nine of them are still alive and can testify to their experience. They didn't return from the Moon empty-handed, either. Just as Columbus carried a few hundred natives back to Spain as evidence of his trip to the New World, Apollo astronauts brought 841 pounds of Moon rock home to Earth.
"Moon rocks are absolutely unique," says Dr. David McKay, Chief Scientist for Planetary Science and Exploration at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC). McKay is a member of the group that oversees the Lunar Sample Laboratory Facility at JSC where most of the Moon rocks are stored. "They differ from Earth rocks in many respects," he added.
"For example," explains Dr. Marc Norman, a lunar geologist at the University of Tasmania, "lunar samples have almost no water trapped in their crystal structure, and common substances such as clay minerals that are ubiquitous on Earth are totally absent in Moon rocks."
"We've found particles of fresh glass in Moon rocks that were produced by explosive volcanic activity and by meteorite impacts over 3 billion years ago," added Norman. "The presence of water on Earth rapidly breaks down such volcanic glass in only a few million years. These rocks must have come from the Moon!"
Right: A glass spherule (about 0.6 mm in diameter) produced by a meteorite impact into lunar soil. Features on the surface are glass splashes, welded mineral fragments, and microcraters produced by space weathering processes at the surface of the moon. SEM image by D. S. McKay (NASA Photo S71-48109).
Fortunately not all of the evidence needs a degree in chemistry or geology to appreciate. An average person holding a Moon rock in his or her hand can plainly see that the specimen came from another world.
"Apollo moon rocks are peppered with tiny craters from meteoroid impacts," explains McKay. This could only happen to rocks from a planet with little or no atmosphere... like the Moon.
Meteoroids are nearly-microscopic specks of comet dust that fly through space at speeds often exceeding 50,000 mph -- ten times faster than a speeding bullet. They pack a considerable punch, but they're also extremely fragile. Meteoroids that strike Earth's atmosphere disintegrate in the rarefied air above our stratosphere. (Every now and then on a dark night you can see one -- they're called meteors.) But the Moon doesn't have an atmosphere to protect it. The tiny space bullets can plow directly into Moon rocks, forming miniature and unmistakable craters.

"There are plenty of museums, including the Smithsonian and others, where members of the public can touch and examine rocks from the Moon," says McKay. "You can see the little meteoroid craters for yourself."
Right: Nick-named "Big Muley," this 11.7 kg Moon rock was the largest returned to Earth by Apollo astronauts. One side of Big Muley was peppered with meteoroid "zap pits." Below right: A close-up view of 1 mm diameter zap pits shows tiny craters lined with black glass surrounded by a white halo of shocked rock. [ more]
Just as meteoroids constantly bombard the Moon so do cosmic rays, and they leave their fingerprints on Moon rocks, too. "There are isotopes in Moon rocks, isotopes we don't normally find on Earth, that were created by nuclear reactions with the highest-energy cosmic rays," says McKay. Earth is spared from such radiation by our protective atmosphere and magnetosphere.
Even if scientists wanted to make something like a Moon rock by, say, bombarding an Earth rock with high energy atomic nuclei, they couldn't. Earth's most powerful particle accelerators can't energize particles to match the most potent cosmic rays, which are themselves accelerated in supernova blastwaves and in the violent cores of galaxies.
Indeed, says McKay, faking a Moon rock well enough to hoodwink an international army of scientists might be more difficult than the Manhattan Project. "It would be easier to just go to the Moon and get one," he quipped.
And therein lies an original idea: Did NASA go to the Moon to collect props for a staged Moon landing? It's an interesting twist on the conspiracy theory that TV producers might consider for their next episode of the Moon Hoax.
"I have here in my office a 10-foot high stack of scientific books full of papers about the Apollo Moon rocks," added McKay. "Researchers in thousands of labs have examined Apollo Moon samples -- not a single paper challenges their origin! And these aren't all NASA employees, either. We've loaned samples to scientists in dozens of countries [who have no reason to cooperate in any hoax]."
Even Dr. Robert Park, Director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society and a noted critic of NASA's human space flight program, agrees with the space agency on this issue. "The body of physical evidence that humans did walk on the Moon is simply overwhelming."
"Fox should stick to making cartoons," agreed Marc Norman. "I'm a big fan of The Simpsons!"

Even better and far more elaborate is BadAstronomy's article on the Fox piece: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

The best 'visual' rebuttal can be found here: http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/

There is no actual evidence to support the hoax theory, and furthermore, since back then they were technologically capable of landing a small craft on the moon, so why fake it?

Now if you would've asked me about the 9/11 Pentagon "plane crash", I would be more inclined to listen to the "nutters";
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194

It's not that conspiracies don't happen (they do, throughout history), it's just that most make little sense and use middle term fallacies and other means and mask it as "facts".