[wildcat]

Discworld Noir was just a PlayStation game.

[Jacques l'aliéné]

Originally Posted by wildcat

Discworld Noir was just a PlayStation game.

Sorry to correct you Wildcat, but I've got it for Playstation and PC. It's commonly seen on eBay as both versions for sale.

[Isak]

Originally Posted by Jacques l'aliéné

Sorry to correct you Wildcat, but I've got it for Playstation and PC. It's commonly seen on eBay as both versions for sale.

I think wildcat meant that it wasen't released for ps2..?

[Jacques l'aliéné]

Originally Posted by Isak

I think wildcat meant that it wasen't released for ps2..?

I'm an idiot ! Apologies Wildcat. Now that I read it again, I realise that's what you meant.

[sethsez]

Originally Posted by Kolorabi

I'm with Gilly on this one - many of the games listed in this thread aren't really adventures. As for the console/pc-distinction, is BG&E an adventure on the PS2 but not on the PC? Doesn't make much sense to me.

It's a console adventure game on the PS2, and a console adventure game on the PC. It doesn't matter if it makes much sense to you, because that's the way it is... the word, like many words in the english language, has more than one definition (does "mad" mean insane or angry? Is a "cup" something you drink out of or something you wear to protect your private parts? Is a "case" something you put things in or something a detective solves?). And considering the Atari game Adventure came out 25 years ago and has been the basis for the term on consoles ever since, it seems a bit late to start challenging the alternate definition now.

[BerserkerTails]

Well, just picked up Syberia for Xbox. And also chalk me up for Beyond Good and Evil if you ever want to stop debating about it.

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by sethsez

It's a console adventure game on the PS2, and a console adventure game on the PC. It doesn't matter if it makes much sense to you, because that's the way it is... the word, like many words in the english language, has more than one definition (does "mad" mean insane or angry? Is a "cup" something you drink out of or something you wear to protect your private parts? Is a "case" something you put things in or something a detective solves?). And considering the Atari game Adventure came out 25 years ago and has been the basis for the term on consoles ever since, it seems a bit late to start challenging the alternate definition now.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Going by the following definition, I'd say games like ICO and BG&E, Tomb Raider, and Silent Hill are not adventure games.

Originally Posted by What are adventure games? by Marek Bronstring

Adventure games focus on puzzle solving within a narrative framework. There are generally few or no action elements. Other popular names for this genre of computer games are “graphic adventure” or “point-and-click adventure”.

Adventure games are not: role-playing games that involve action, team-building and points management; 3D action/adventure games such as Tomb Raider; side-scroller action games such as Mario or Rayman; puzzle games like Pandora’s Box or Tetris.

http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,149

A game is a game. I'm not sure how a game can be an Adventure Game in one gaming system and not in others. I guess we agree to disagree.

[wilco]

Ico
Shadow of Memories

Project Zero 2??
Beyond Good and Evil??
all for PS2

I dont see how can Ico be compared to Beyond Good and Evil. The first is made of puzzle with a couple of action involving a stick and some shadow people (although the spiritual sequel Wanda looks to be more action oriented) while the second is a pure action/stealth/adventure/racing/flying/photograph/etc kind of game... oh... they are both great!

[sethsez]

Originally Posted by gillyruless

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Going by the following definition, I'd say games like ICO and BG&E, Tomb Raider, and Silent Hill are not adventure games.



http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,149

A game is a game. I'm not sure how a game can be an Adventure Game in one gaming system and not in others. I guess we agree to disagree.

Then to clarify: there are really two different genres. PC adventure games (which that definition covers), and console adventure games. Much like first-person shooters (Doom and such) and 2D shooters (Raiden, Gradius and such), it's one basic genre with qualifiers. For shooters, qualifiers are "first person" and "2D" among others. For adventure games, the qualifiers are PC and console, among others. And note that I'm talking in generalities here... if Zelda was ported to the PC, it would still be a console adventure game, just running on a PC. Much like Morrowind on the XBox was considered a PC RPG.

Unfortunately with adventure gaming, both sides like to use shorthand for their genres. If you go to a console oriented message board, Zelda will be called an adventure. You know what Still Life will be called? A PC adventure. Console boards use "adventure" as shorthand for "console adventure." The same thing exists here. Obviously, this site is devoted to PC adventures and everything that entails... yet that qualifier is never used because it's assumed by everyone involved.

The only real constant in both genres is puzzles of some sort. Otherwise, it's much like the RPG genre. Final Fantasy and Daggerfall might share the same genre name, but you'd be hard pressed to convince fans of either that they actually deserve to fall under the same banner. And AD&D fans think it's all bunk. Beyond statistics, there's nothing in common. But they still share the same name.

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by sethsez

It's a console adventure game on the PS2, and a console adventure game on the PC. It doesn't matter if it makes much sense to you, because that's the way it is...

So, if BG&E had been a PC-only game, it would still have been a console adventure according to you?

I think it's a mistake to use a platform type in a genre name. I mean, look at "console RPG". Luckily people seem to have realized how meaningless that term is, and it's lost a lot of ground lately.

And considering the Atari game Adventure came out 25 years ago and has been the basis for the term on consoles ever since, it seems a bit late to start challenging the alternate definition now.

It's funny, because I see Atari's Adventure as one of the earliest examples of the action-adventure.

But I realize people around the world have different terms for things. I know some people who refer to adventure games as "pick up"-games. And hey, I used to refer to FPS-games as Doom-style games for quite some time. It doesn't really matter what you call a game, it's still the same game. And this board really isn't dedicated to what you call "console adventures".

[CrimsonBlue]

Keep it simple, and call the traditional point'n'click adventures for just that. Point'n'click adventures. If it's controlled by keyboard, so what? The genre is still the same, and basically everyone knows what kind of game a point'n'click adventure would be. It's not like we have point'n'click rpgs, or point'n'click strategy games.

Anyway, BG&E is not a point'n'click adventure. It's an action adventure, best played with a gamepad (although that's a personal preference).

And I've never heard about the terms "console adventure" and "pc adventure". I've heard about "console rpgs" and "pc rpgs" but even they are kind of misleading. Instead of saying console rpgs it's better to use the term japanese rpgs and western rpgs (and I don't mean cowboys and indians). Today, calling a game an adventure can mean tons of things. If you use the term console adventure, you could most likely use that term for about 90% of the games available on consoles. Tomb Raider, ICO, BG&E, Prince of Persia, Shadow of Memories, Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Grandia, Super Mario, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Psychonauts could all be called console adventure. The point of a genre should give you some kind of idea of what this game is all about, so while Jak & Daxter contains adventure, it's better to call it a platformer. BG&E contains adventure, but the game is basically 35% adventure, 15% puzzles (simplistic that is), and 50% action. So the best way to describe this game is an action adventure.

Pure and simple.

[sethsez]

Originally Posted by Kolorabi

So, if BG&E had been a PC-only game, it would still have been a console adventure according to you?

Yep, just like if Still Life was Xbox-only, it would be referred to as a "PC-style adventure."

But I realize people around the world have different terms for things.

'sall I'm saying. I know this board isn't about console-style adventures, and I admitted as much in my initial post when I said that I was mainly just ranting about people who talk about the "purity" of the genre term while ignoring the fact that other places use it in different ways (like that JA+ article). It was an off-hand remark that I didn't expect to cause any actual discussion.

Anyway, new additions I remembered: D, and The Mansion of Hidden Souls for Saturn.

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

If you use the term console adventure, you could most likely use that term for about 90% of the games available on consoles.

When I've seen the term used, it's always describing either a Zelda clone, or a Prince of Persia descendant. Most of those you listed don't fit.

[draino1]

Does anyone even remember the original question?

[Isak]

Originally Posted by draino1

Does anyone even remember the original question?

Nope, but I love you avatar.

[CrimsonBlue]

Originally Posted by sethsez

When I've seen the term used, it's always describing either a Zelda clone, or a Prince of Persia descendant. Most of those you listed don't fit.

Well, I've never seen the term console adventure at all. Console adventures could mean anything. That's why the term is so useless. What makes Metal Gear Solid less of a console adventure? That game is pure console, only a few ports to the PC, and the gameplay is all console, and what makes it NOT an adventure? If a term like console adventure is made, every one of the titles I mentioned would fall under it. Luckily we have better terms for each of these games.

Another thing, if console adventure would be used for two games as different as Zelda and PoP (there's a world of difference between these two) you would have to call both Grim Fandango and Half Life a pc adventure too. PC adventures and console adventures are two completely useless terms that would only be used by people to describe a game he/she doesn't know anything about. You might as well call Metal Gear Solid a "shooting game".

[sethsez]

I know you haven't seen the term "console adventure." I already said they don't call them that... they just use "adventure" and are done with it. I used "console" to differentiate that from what is considered an adventure here, and to most PC gamers.

It's a stupid genre label, I agree. It's also the label that happens to be used by console gamers to describe games like Ico and Zelda, and has been for a long time. I think "survival horror" is a stupid genre that encompasses a number of different kinds of games (could Siren be any different from Resident Evil?), but that doesn't mean the label doesn't exist.

I'm not saying it's a good definition. I'm saying it's been in use for a long time, and is understood as such.

Now PLEASE, can we drop this and get back on topic? I already said I didn't want or expect this to turn into a big discussion, and I already said it was just an off-hand remark.

[Tanukitsune]

If we are talking "pure" adventure, then my list would be:

-Maniac Mansion, NES
-Deja Vu I%II, GBC
-Shadowgate Classic, GBC
-The Fish Files, GBC
-Shadow of Memories, PS2
-Discworld II, PSOne
-Clock Tower, PSOne
-Clock Tower III, PS2

I also have lots of non-pure adventure like ICO, and Beyond Good & Evil...

That reminds of a thread I wanted to start a long time ago but forgot about...

[sethsez]

Originally Posted by Tanukitsune

-Clock Tower, PSOne

I forgot about this one because part III was so different, but yeah, this too. Not very good though, but a nifty idea that could be expanded on.

[100ja a.k.a. mr_mitja]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

Are you sure? mitja might have mislabeled, then.

Yep, sorry, Discworld Noir and In Cold Blood are for PSX. My bad

But you can play them on PS2 thanx to backward compatibility (or something like that)

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by crabapple

Echo Night Beyond

How would you rate this game? Digital Jesters are about to release it in the UK, and I see that it's available for £14.99 (pre-order) from play.com, so I'm considering a purchase. I see it's received mixed reviews so far, though.