[Ascovel]

Inspired by mikee's thread, I decided to ask gamers here if there's anything you love about indie* adventure games compared to non-indie ones? Do the indies, with their creative freedom, manage to bring anything new to the table as far as you are concerned?

Examples of specific titles will be appreciated.

*I use the term "indie" in the sense of "self-funded" and "not-having-a-publisher-overseeing-your-project". Both commercial and freeware indies count.

[Bon]

I haven't played many indies, but I think their story aspects are really refreshing, especially the comedies. Nowadays, pretty much all "mainstream" comedy adventures are the same. But, like I said, I haven't played many indies, so I could be wrong.

[Sughly]

Interesting thread. I think the first thing that comes to my mind is Amanita Design. I can't see something like Samorost ever being produced under a publisher with no previous experience in development, and I think that's huge. Samorost was an extremely original game and completely paved the way for Machinarium.

I also believe - not that I have anything in particular to help back me up - that it's pushing for much more development in 2D games. More and more indies are 2D are players are beginning to realise how great it still is and can be. A few years back we would never see any big name developers trying 2D again (except those in Japan, as always), but it's really starting to show up again in places. Which makes me a very happy gamer .

[colpet]

If it wouldn't be for indies, I wouldn't be playing adventure games now. Thanks goodness there are games like Rhem, Slip Space, The Filmmaker, Last Half of Darkness, Rhiannon and Lost Souls that are the first person exploration/puzzle games that I prefer to play. There is virtually nothing new in commercial adventures that interests me anymore.

[paul1275]

Indie games for me are the ones that keep me interested in this much maligned genre. For years we have seen technology bettered, gaming purported to be the new entertainment of the masses and somehow the games industry has become quite stale.

Over a year ago I bought the Playstation 3 simply because of 'Heavy Rain', a game that turned out to be just... OK. While I was impressed by the emotional aspect of the game, I had a much greater reaction to Jonas Kyratzes 'The Museum of Broken Memories'. In Jonas' game we are treated to something quite emotional and very experimental in places. I honestly believe that Jonas tried more in that game that we have seen in much commercial output - ever! And it's Free!

Being an indie developer takes one key factor away. The department that sells the game. Take that away and you can make the game you want without having to worry about the politics before it gets to the playing (or rather paying) public.

What has been interesting to see over the last few years is the split between the indie development for free and paid titles. As digital distribution opens the prospect of making money, I think game makers (including myself) will make their games more palatable to the masses. With adventure games taking such a commitment to make over other genres I fear that the experimentation that I've seen in games such as 'Darkfate', 'Everyday the Same Dream' and 'Pathways' will disappear.

So in a nutshell (and yes I have gone on a bit haven't I boys and girls) Indie developers are keeping the Adventure genre alive, certainly for me. But sadly as we endeavour to realise our dreams and make our games a reality we inevitably censure our creative freedom to a certain degree. But at least people are trying something new, and thankfully so... Because if I have to play one more so called 'Casual Adventure' game that entails finding hidden objects, I'll self harm.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by colpet

Thanks goodness there are games like Rhem, Slip Space, The Filmmaker, Last Half of Darkness, Rhiannon and Lost Souls that are the first person exploration/puzzle games that I prefer to play.

I always wonder how good would I be at creating this kind of game.

As I haven't played all those titles yet, could you tell me if it's just the 1st person perspective and mysterious atmosphere in them you like so much? Or do you also prefer to travel locations that you can explore without non-player characters interfering, and the logic puzzles types of puzzles over the inventory-based ones?

How did you like character-intensive 1st person games like The Marionette, or Black Dahlia for example?

[colpet]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

I always wonder how good would I be at creating this kind of game.

As I haven't played all those titles yet, could you tell me if it's just the 1st person perspective and mysterious atmosphere in them you like so much? Or do you also prefer to travel locations that you can explore without non-player characters interfering, and the logic puzzles types of puzzles over the inventory-based ones?

How did you like character-intensive 1st person games like The Marionette, or Black Dahlia for example?

I like the 'travel to destinations/no NPCs/logic puzzles' best (Riven is my all time fave). They are few and far between right now. I play the occasional 3rd person game - the Lost Crown and Machinarium, both which I liked. I actually don't like horror/thrillers that much, but unfortunately most of the indie games I like are dark and mysterious. I would like to see more fantasy/SF based games, which is why I'm enjoying Slip Space so much.
I've not played the Marionette, but I played Black Dahlia twice .
I would recommend that you try a Rhem game - there are 3. They are the closest thing to Riven I can imagine in terms of integrated and layers of puzzle, but without the high budget graphics and complex back story.

[Shany]

Most Indie games are a bit like casual games - short, cheap and don't require a good computer to run. But unlike most casuals, they have a strong story, characters and atmoshpere.

[Ascovel]

@colpet Thanks for the recommendation. Both Myst and Riven are among my favorite games of all time. I kept away from RHEM so far, because I was told it's a pure puzzle game without an intriguing story, and it's usually following a storyline that keeps me focused on playing and finishing a game. But maybe I should have a look anyway.

@Shany Very nicely and concisely put how you perceive indie adventure games.

@Other_People Keep the opinions coming. The general perception of indie adventure games is something that would be useful to have more clearly defined as many indie creators actively participate in the adventure gaming community.

[nonax]

I have some reservations about the definition of an 'independent' developer. For most of the titles I'm not sure whether it is an indie or not. There are of course the obvious ones where the developer - or should I say creator - explicitly manifests itself as independent. Like ZombieCow or Wadget Eye. But for example the latter has been growing steadily and now publishes multiple developments, like the recent Puzzle Bots. And the development of Emerald City Confidential was sort of ordered by a bigger publisher. And it really doesn't matter because the sheer talent of in this case Dave Gilbert made it a marvellous game.
All in all I like the Zombie Cow adventures Ben There, Dan That and Time Gentlemen Please for there good humour and clever puzzle design. Dave Gilbert's games stand out in writing and atmosphere in my opinion. But both qualities can be found in games from the established firms.

On the other hand it could be said that titles like Edna and Harvey and The Whispered World both started as independent developments. In this case very talented students with a good idea. Edna was originally a university project of Jan MĂĽller-Michaelis. He co-funded Deadelic, but can this publisher be called independent?

And there are also the larger houses that claim to be independent, like FrogWares. In a recent thread on this forum about the Sherlock Holmes franchise it was stated that FrogWares has enough resources to fund their developments. Good news for us fans, but does that make FrogWares independent or are they already a big player?

In the end I think the talent, love and care for the genre by the creator is decisive for the end product. It is always noticeable if a game was rushed or uninspired. It is a shame that talent and funding do not always seem to find each other. But with the internet as cheap publishing medium and game development software like AGS there are more possibilities for talent to flourish. And again for me the talent and care count, not where the game came from.

[Ascovel]

Hey nonax! No definition is ever perfect, but concerning your doubts, I think the best way to discern an indie from a non-indie title is by asking, if the people that worked as designers on the game, were also the ones making the financial and publishing decisions about it.

I don't know about Frogwares, but e.g. City Interactive is a huge company which besides doing other things releases "its own" adventure games. Nevertheless, the actual development team/studio is what remains of a company called Detalion acquired by City-I at one point. That team is limited in the decisions it can make, so it clearly doesn't act as an independent.

And Emarald City Confidential is the one Wadjet Eye title so far that isn't an indie game, as Wadjet Eye was hired by Playfirst to do it. Nevertheless, thanks to that occasion Dave Gilbert was able to realize his longtime concept for a noir game set in Oz.

The importance of making a game as an indie is that no one has the final say on, if the proposed/implemented ideas are good or not, besides the lead designers. What it means for the player is that those games will often have lesser production values, but also bolder, less popular ideas. At least that's their potential.