[Sky Warrior Bob]

Personally, I'm no fan of Warez and I know of the legal issues concerning old adventure games, but I was wondering if any options exist. The only one I could possibly see flying is the idea of burning CD copies for oneself, and then sending out the originals in trade.

Of course, maybe that wouldn't even fly.

Sky Warrior Bob

[WontonGoodsoup]

I've heard the argument that if it is not being sold by retailers, then it is considered abandon-ware and can be traded freely. Of course differen't people view this different ways. I don't think there is anything wrong with trading your original copy. If you were selling the backups you were making, then you might run into trouble.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Yeah, I guess. I personally feel just a wee bit guilty, as I still have all my Lucasarts & Sierra titles, as well as a few others, and other people don't. I just wish there were some options that could be persued.

Sky Warrior Bob

[Scoville]

There's no real difference between selling a burned copy and selling an original but making a burn for yourself. Either way, where once was one copy with one owner, now you have two copies with two owners, without permission from the copyright holder.

[Dujodu]

If there's a demand and no supply... I don't feel guilty about it.

i'm for it in some ways and aginst it in others.
if the game is'nt sold anyware or the company is'nt around to make a profit then go for it.
but, if the game company is still around then i might be hesitant. (example: revolution is still around but they dont sell broken sword 1. i got mine for 5 bucks at sold out software)

i would be willing to make copys of my game if i was compinsated for the shipping, i would most likey do the same for them. depending on the age of the game and the condition of the company that made it.

[AGA]

Take a look here and count how many 'copy' entries there are to see my opinions on abandonware... (I own Loom and DotT on floppy by the way, so technically I didn't rip those off ¬_¬)

I always make an effort to find a game in stores/online/eBay, but if I can't find it there, I'm gonna download it or trade with a friend who has a copy...

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Scoville

There's no real difference between selling a burned copy and selling an original but making a burn for yourself. Either way, where once was one copy with one owner, now you have two copies with two owners, without permission from the copyright holder.

Whoa, there's a BIG difference. If you sell the original copy and make a copy for yourself, you have given up legal title to the material and now hold a pirated copy. If you sell a burned copy, you still hold legal title to the material, but have profited from the distribution of pirated material. Legally, the latter would be much worse than the former. You're right that in the grand cosmic scheme of things, it all balances out, and of course we're talking about old adventure games and no one's ever really going to care...but there's definitely a large legal difference between possessing pirated material and profiting from pirated material.

yep, i agree.

you should'nt sell pirated material. that does'nt give the orgional manufacture any chance of compinsation.

[Toefur]

I don't think million dollar companies really care if they lose $5 from the pirated sale of a game that they wont make any more money off anyway due to not selling it.

I think when it comes to things like this (and absolutely everything, in my opinion) that the individual should ask themselves, "Is this unethical?" rather than, "Is this legal?"

[Risingson]

I agree. Remember that abandonware and such is, after all, as illegal as warez.

[Leonardi]

Nintendo has a very good legal page set up regarding ROMs and emulators, but pretty much what they say apply to the so-called "abandonwarez" in the bold parts:

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp

Intellectual Property Rights

Nintendo owns intellectual property rights in its products. These include copyrights, trademarks, and patents.

Copyrights

A copyright is an exclusive right granted to an author of a literary, musical, audiovisual or artistic work, giving the author the sole right to reproduce and distribute that work. There are several different types of copyrights which are associated with Nintendo's products. These include various copyrights in Nintendo's software source code, executable code, game visual display, game music, game characters, product packaging, game manuals and labels; hardware chip microcode; artwork and publications.

Trademarks

Trademarks are the distinctive names, words, logos, designs and symbols used to distinguish a product of a particular manufacturer or source. Some of Nintendo's most widely recognized trademarks include Nintendo®, Game Boy®, Super NES® and Super Mario Bros.®. The Nintendo® trademark has been filed in many countries throughout the world and registrations have been issued in Nintendo's name in many countries.

Patents

A patent is a grant of the exclusive right in an invention for a period of time. Nintendo owns many utility and design patents. There are many patents and design patents associated with Nintendo's hardware and software products.

Counterfeits

A counterfeit Nintendo product is an illegal copy of an authentic Nintendo product. These counterfeit products often originate from Taiwan, Hong Kong or China. The production, distribution, or sale of counterfeit Nintendo products is illegal. Nintendo has brought thousands of legal actions worldwide to stop counterfeiters. In addition, thousands of criminal actions have been brought against those found to be distributing, reproducing, or selling unauthorized, illegal copies of Nintendo video game products throughout the world, including criminal actions against on-line distributors.

For more information on piracy issues regarding the videogame industry, please visit the Entertainment Software Association's website at http://www.theESA.com/

Independent Publishers/Licensees/Licensed Property Owners

Nintendo licenses a number of independent third party publishers to use its patented technology, copyrights and trademarks in developing, creating and marketing their own video games. Additionally, there are a number of intellectual property rights associated with these games that are owned by these publishers. In addition, many independent property owners from such sources as movies, television, sports leagues, etc. license their intellectual properties for use in video games.

What are Nintendo ROMS?

A Nintendo ROM ("Read Only Memory") is the type of chip used in Nintendo's video game cartridge which contains the game software. However, this term is commonly used on many gaming sites on the Internet and refers to game data that was copied from an authentic Nintendo video game cartridge.

What is a Nintendo Video Game Emulator?

A Nintendo emulator is a software program that is designed to allow game play on a platform that it was not created for. A Nintendo emulator allows for Nintendo console based or arcade games to be played on unauthorized hardware. The video games are obtained by downloading illegally copied software, i.e. Nintendo ROMs, from Internet distributors. Nintendo ROMs then work with the Nintendo emulator to enable game play on unauthorized hardware such as a personal computer, a modified console, etc.

Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet.

How Does Nintendo Feel About the Emergence of Video Game Emulators?

The introduction of emulators created to play illegally copied Nintendo software represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers. As is the case with any business or industry, when its products become available for free, the revenue stream supporting that industry is threatened. Such emulators have the potential to significantly damage a worldwide entertainment software industry which generates over $15 billion annually, and tens of thousands of jobs.

What Does Nintendo Think of the Argument that Emulators are Actually Good for Nintendo Because it Promotes the Nintendo Brand to PC Users and Leads to More Sales?

Distribution of an emulator developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software hurts Nintendo's goodwill, the millions of dollars invested in research & development and marketing by Nintendo and its licensees. Substantial damages are caused to Nintendo and its licensees. It is irrelevant whether or not someone profits from the distribution of an emulator. The emulator promotes the play of illegal ROMs , NOT authentic games. Thus, not only does it not lead to more sales, it has the opposite effect and purpose.

How Come Nintendo Does Not Take Steps Towards Legitimizing Nintendo Emulators?

Emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software promote piracy. That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy. It doesn't make any business sense. It's that simple and not open to debate.

People Making Nintendo Emulators and Nintendo ROMs are Helping Publishers by Making Old Games Available that are No Longer Being Sold by the Copyright Owner. This Does Not Hurt Anyone and Allows Gamers to Play Old Favorites. What's the Problem?

The problem is that it's illegal. Copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets. If these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the right owner. In addition, the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems, for example, Mario and Donkey Kong have enjoyed their adventures on all Nintendo platforms, going from coin-op machines to our latest hardware platforms. As a copyright owner, and creator of such famous characters, only Nintendo has the right to benefit from such valuable assets.

Isn't it Okay to Download Nintendo ROMs for Games that are No Longer Distributed in the Stores or Commercially Exploited? Aren't They Considered "Public Domain"?

No, the current availability of a game in stores is irrelevant as to its copyright status. Copyrights do not enter the public domain just because they are no longer commercially exploited or widely available. Therefore, the copyrights of games are valid even if the games are not found on store shelves, and using, copying and/or distributing those games is a copyright infringement.

Haven't the Copyrights for Old Games Expired?

U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 75 years from the date of first publication. Because video games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video games will not expire for many decades to come.

Are Game Copying Devices Illegal?

Yes. Game copiers enable users to illegally copy video game software onto floppy disks, writeable compact disks or the hard drive of a personal computer. They enable the user to make, play and distribute illegal copies of video game software which violates Nintendo's copyrights and trademarks. These devices also allow for the uploading and downloading of ROMs to and from the Internet. Based upon the functions of these devices, they are illegal.

Can Websites and/or Internet Content Providers be Held Liable for Violation of Intellectual Property Rights if they are Only Providing Links to Illegal Software and/or Other Illegal Devices?

Yes. Personal Websites and/or Internet Content Providers sites That link to Nintendo ROMs, Nintendo emulators and/or illegal copying devices can be held liable for copyright and trademark violations, regardless of whether the illegal software and/or devices are on their site or whether they are linking to the sites where the illegal items are found.

How Do I Report Potential Infringements to Nintendo Products?

To report infringing items on internet auction sites, please call us at 1-800-255-3700 or e-mail us at [email protected]

To report ROM sites, emulators, Game Copiers, Counterfeit manufacturing, or other illegal activities, please call us at 1-800-255-3700 or e-mail us at [email protected]

For any other legal inquiry or concern, please call us at 1-800-255-3700 or e-mail us at [email protected]

For more information on piracy issues regarding the videogame industry, please visit the Entertainment Software Association's website at www.theESA.com.

[WontonGoodsoup]

So what do they expect you to do??!! Go out and look for a copy of Maniac Mansion for the NES and the original hardware to play it on?? You can only buy that junk used so nintendo isn't making jack off of it anyways! I understand all the legal issues and thier concerns with piracy, but lets all be honest with ourselves. If you tell the consumer that they can only play the original games on the original hardware, then you should make those products readily available for purchase.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

It'd be nice if Nintendo would just break down and make certain rules for release, and make ROMs legal. I mean, said titles aren't making them any profit, and releasing freeware always gets good press.

Of course, convincing Nintendo of this fact is another matter entirely. By not giving a legal option, Nintendo makes it harder for them to curb this sort of abuse to their copywrite, as it has become widespread.

Sky Warrior Bob

[crabapple]

Originally Posted by AGA

Take a look here and count how many 'copy' entries there are to see my opinions on abandonware... (I own Loom and DotT on floppy by the way, so technically I didn't rip those off ¬_¬)

I always make an effort to find a game in stores/online/eBay, but if I can't find it there, I'm gonna download it or trade with a friend who has a copy...

I'm surprised you couldn't find a legal version of The Longest Journey.

[hurricanesmith]

It's odd that you mention Nintendo. The console gaming community has been rumoring (if that's a word) for a long time that Nintendo will be releasing a throwback machine sometime soon, since their Super Nintendo ports for GBA do so well. . .

HS

[WontonGoodsoup]

Originally Posted by hurricanesmith

The console gaming community has been rumoring (if that's a word) for a long time that Nintendo will be releasing a throwback machine sometime soon, since their Super Nintendo ports for GBA do so well. . .

This doesn't sound like it would sell that well. Has a company ever done this before?? Actually re-released hardware for purchase? I wouldn't think that the new generation (younger) gamers would want anything to do with older games.

[CrimsonBlue]

I doubt the "throwback" machine rumours are true at all. They keep on re-releasing their old catalogue of games anyway, with all the SNES ports to the GBA, and now they're going to make even more money by milking the cow on rereleasing games they already rereleased on GBA AGAIN, like Super Mario Bros. What's the point of releasing that one twice, and this game you get... *shock*... WORSE graphics.

They keep milking the cow by rereleasing their back-catalogue. I understand The Legend of Zelda, but that was already released free with the Zelda bonus pack, as well as a few others. Besides, for old NES and SNES, I'd use my modded Xbox. I'm not spending more money on the so-called gaming pioneers (Nintendo) than I need.