[Fantasysci5]

Well, I'm not thrilled with Syberia at all, but since so many people like it, I guess I would count it as a classic. "The Lost Crown" was amazing, of course, so I would count that, and The Longest Journey/Dreamfall.

[Keregioz]

I agree that only dreamfall can be considered a classic these last 10 years.
There are some other very good games indeed but none of them can be considered a classic.
Let's see how TMI does, although from playing the first episode I wouldn't expect it to become a classic like the first 3 were. I believe it's in the same league as MI4. Of course there are 4 more chapters so that could change.

[colpet]

My suggestions for classic games:
Myst Exile 2001
Schizm 2001
Dark Fall 2002
Syberia 2002

The most recent game that I would consider a classic game (a must play game) is Outcry, however I'm aware that most people on this board would disagree.

[Citizen Arcane]

Originally Posted by millenium

What I mean by top-class is a game that is perfect whichever way you look at it. Games like Grim Fandango, TLJ and GK3 arguably have no flaws.

Of course they have flaws. All three games are full of plenty of annoying little flaws, and some "arguably" glaring ones. I'm not arguing with their status as classics - Grim and GK3 are two of my favorite games.

But both of those games were lambasted (rightfully so) for atrocious controls. All three suffer from the occasional hare-brained, illogical puzzle (you really can't just put on the rubber glove to pick up the key? Really?).

There's not a single line of dialogue or a cutscene which makes you think "what the heck...".

I may be alone in this, but I found myself saying just that (well, perhaps using another four-letter word) quite a lot during The Longest Journey, and not in a good way. I still liked the game, but I found a lot of the writing to be lacking and annoying in it's over-"hipness" (Crow, Burns Flipper, a lot of April's dialogue) and the cutscenes awkward and poorly directed.

Also, a lot of people have complained about Tim Curry's voice acting in GK3. Not me, I love it, but I've heard plenty of grumbling that he's way, way over the top.

Besides, all of them had decent graphics for their era.

Grim and TLJ, yes. But GK3 was widely considered... a little ugly for it's time. Blurry textures, simplistic geometry, awkward character models (with faces that seemed stapled onto the heads and bodies), clunky animation.

I'm actually not disagreeing with you. I agree with the general idea of the thread. I can't think of any game since 2000 that can truly measure up to the greatness of the 90s classics.

I just want to make sure those classics are judged fairly as well. They're flawed. Their greatness overcomes those flaws, yes, but they still exist.

[Neptin]

The first one is from 1998, but I count it nevertheless:

The Feeble Files
The Book of Unwritten Tales
The Longest Journey

[millenia]

Well to become a true classic, a game has to be a few years old. The recent good games might reach a classic status still. And yes, those old games have flaws in them. Stupid puzzles, silly plotholes, some bad characters even.

Also remember that you yourself are different. Nothing is going to be as perfect as it was when you were 12 - or 17. When you grow up you become more critical and get excited less and more slowly. And everyone did not love those games back then, people these days admit their classic status but not all love those still, and some people might actually consider some of them just plain bad.

And it's not like adventure games are the only ones that spill out lots of mediocre work these days when you feel that all the oldies were just plain brilliant .

I agree that 1999 is idd a good year, Discworld Noir and TLJ are pretty much my absolute favourite adventures. All GKs are great too, I still hold the first the most precious though. And you can't really rule out 1999 until the year changes, no?

Anyway, there's a lot of great games, and some promising titles to come. Dreamfall was great even with the silly action sequences. Syberias were great (yes, even the second one, the game style and story is something that might bore some people, I admit that, but both games are enchanting, very beautiful and very well done). I would count in Still Life, even with the open ending, if they had the time and money to create a longer and better conclusion, the game would have spanked some 90s classic ass. I consider Culpa Innata a great one and I wouldn't rule out Memento Mori to become something to be valued either.

Games like Black Mirror and Overclocked had some very right stuff in them, but on those I agree that they aren't really that excellent. Yet these kind of games are plenty these days and I would consider it a good thing. Every year they publish several games that are entertaining and work well for the most part. It would be brilliant if they could tune all those games into perfection but it's just not gonna happen. So I am very happy that there at least is plenty of playable games to choose from, and many of those "3andahalfstar" games can be precious gems to some people.

[dekaneas297]

Syberia, Syberia and Syberia.

[L-Jazz]

Originally Posted by millenium

My list of past 1999 top-class adventures so far: Dreamfall, Syberia 1, Myst3/4 (not Uru though) and probably SnM, even though I'm not a big fan of the series I do agree it's good. That being said, I'd still say none of those games are legendary, with Dreamfall being closest to that status.

Personally I can't stand the Myst series, or 1st person adventures in general. Nikopol is the only exception so far.

Anyway, what works for some doesn't cut it for others.
The games I listed are fantastic in my opinion, and well, I count myself lucky since there seems to be much more for me to enjoy out there than there is for you

[rtrooney]

There is a problem here that is faced daily by motion picture critics. I.e., can a movie be good even if I don't like it? Conversely, does the fact that a movie is wildly accepted by the movie-going public, make it a good movie even if it was panned by critics? (For the latter, witness the latest Transformers.)

I'm going to straddle the fence. TLJ quite possibly is a great game. But I didn't like it. I'm not a big fan of excessive walking, dialog trees or action sequences in adventures. TLJ had them all. Ergo, for me, not a great game.

Syberia 1&2. Great game, but only if you consider the pair as one game. I don't think either, individually rate as great.

Scratches was a great game. Scratches - the Directors Cut was a horrible game! What caused the developers to reinvent a game that was less than a year old, using a graphics card technology that was supported by less than 20% of available cards, and not widely publicize that fact? People who bought the latter and found it unplayable were out of luck as well as cash. For that reason alone, Scratches doesn't make the cut.

I think Still Life was great. There was some walking, but it offered mapping. There was one "action" sequence, but it was fairly easily solveable. And, yes, I forgive the fact that the 3D rendering was not first rate.

One game that has not been mentioned is Al Emmo. A superb game. And since it became "affordable", one that I would highly recommend.

So, there it is.

Syberia 1&2 as a unit
Still Life
Al Emmo

[ozzie]

Originally Posted by millenium

Uhh, sadly their in German only.

Sadly, yes.
But the situation should change sooner or later. Just hope the translation won't suck for you.

[gray pierce]

Originally Posted by L-Jazz

Between you and me, it's only you.
Broken Sword 3, Fahrenheit, Still Life, Overclocked, Sinking Island, Syberia 1 & 2, Dreamfall, Runaway 1 & 2, Hotel Dusk and Shadow of Destiny are all games of greatness according to me.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT !

I will also add every Sherlock Holmes game made by Frogwares except the first one on wich I can't comment since I haven't played it.

[gray pierce]

Sorry for posting again but I can't believe everyone (even I at first) forgot to mention them

SECRET FILES !

In my opinion the greatest gameseries of the last 10 years

[pedram_pd]

The Longest Journey
Dreamfall
Syberia 1&2
Stilllife
Fahrenheit

i need a good last decade adventure game !
any suggestion ?!!

[Fantasysci5]

I have the exact same thinking, at least in idea, as rtrooney. Instead of TLJ, though, it's Syberia. I don't like it. Yes, the graphics are amazing, which I keep writing every time I talk about Syberia, but the characters are flat and the plot is not thought provoking, not even fun, IMHO. But I see how most everyone else likes it, so I agree that it may be a great game.

[L-Jazz]

Originally Posted by gray pierce

Sorry for posting again but I can't believe everyone (even I at first) forgot to mention them

SECRET FILES !

In my opinion the greatest gameseries of the last 10 years

Oh yeah, how could I miss Secret Files? >_< I actually finished the second one just about a week or two ago. They are very good games indeed

[orient]

Originally Posted by millenium

What I mean by top-class is a game that is perfect whichever way you look at it.

[...]

My list of past 1999 top-class adventures so far: Dreamfall, Syberia 1, Myst3/4 (not Uru though) and probably SnM, even though I'm not a big fan of the series I do agree it's good.

Well it seems you're contradicting yourself, because Dreamfall is not a perfect game, whichever way you look at it, and neither is Syberia In fact, no game is perfect and no matter how you try and quantify it, "top class" status is still a matter of personal opinion.

[KasiaD]

rtrooney, were there any action sequences in TLJ? I can't remember any.. Dreamfall is other matter.

Many great games were mentioned here, I would add a game that was a splendid suprise - Perry Rhodan. The science fiction theme I missed for a long time. I am awaiting a sequel with great impatience

[ozzie]

I agree that Syberia is very flawed, but I think that its strengths overcome its weaknesses. It's not my personal favorite, but I appreciate what it does. Can't say that for the sequel, though...

[millenium]

Originally Posted by Citizen Arcane

Of course they have flaws

Crap, should have put "nearly perfect"...

Originally Posted by Citizen Arcane

Grim and TLJ, yes. But GK3 was widely considered... a little ugly for it's time

Was it? I know it was more or less the beggining of the move to 3D, and some people were expecting FMV, like GK2, but got something very different. I remember the lightning effect were pretty good for their time (ahhh, the lovely streets of nightly Rennes...)

Originally Posted by millenia

Also remember that you yourself are different. Nothing is going to be as perfect as it was when you were 12 - or 17. When you grow up you become more critical and get excited less and more slowly

A very good point. It's happened to me when I tried replaying some of the more average games that I enjoyed nonetheless, and found them to be quite annoying. That being said, I revisited Grim Fandango a couple of months ago, and the magic was still there.

Originally Posted by millenia

I would count in Still Life, even with the open ending, if they had the time and money to create a longer and better conclusion, the game would have spanked some 90s classic ass

Quite possibly. However, conclusion aside, the characters weren't too memorable, because they were not that well written IMO. That alone makes the game less than a top-class for me.

Originally Posted by orient

Well it seems you're contradicting yourself, because Dreamfall is not a perfect game, whichever way you look at it, and neither is Syberia In fact, no game is perfect and no matter how you try and quantify it, "top class" status is still a matter of personal opinion.

I guess you're right on the matter of subjectivity. However, some games are much closer to perfection than others. As someone has already pointed out, with the the really good games the flaws are easier to forget, because they shine immenselly in most of the other areas. Take for example Overclocked and GK3. In both of the games it's fairly easy to see what's behind the mystery or at least who the villain is. However, in the case of GK3 were was stuff that kept you interested: character development, some decent puzzles, interesting places . With Overclocked, it was soon clear who was pulling the strings and why. The only question was how it would all end. Some of the writing was weak as well, especially in the case of Terry, wife phone conversation which in many cases felt both unrealistic and forced. I think in this case, the criticism is quite objective. Yes, the control scheme in GK3 was a bit weird, but the story was so good that it didn't matter.

The case is even more obvious with such games as Fahrenheit, Tunguska, Ruanaway and some other games which some of you have put forward as top-class. Fahrenheit had some pretty bad cliches, and some of the cutscenes were uber-lame. Tunguska (haven't played the 2nd one yet) - pixel hunting, some stupid puzzles, a very lifeless main character (and, there was a guy as well, right?), and I've already expressed my criticism related to Runaway. In all of these cases, the flaws are quite objective and numerous, and there is not enough shine in other areas...

With Syberia, as I've said, although I don't consider it to be a top-class adventure there is simply no way I can prove my point, because of subjectivity (although there are a few weaknesses such as pretty lame phone conversation, they don't play a major role). If someone tells the game is top-class, I simply can't disagree. Myst series in particular seems to create that sort of division, even though Riven, say, is pretty close to being perfect. In fact, I can't think of any flaws...

Originally Posted by KasiaD

I would add a game that was a splendid suprise - Perry Rhodan

Will have a go at that one pretty soon if I have time.

[Dysphoric1]

The lack of real classics in the 21st century can pretty much be linked to the exit of the adventure genre from the dedicated gaming market into the casual games market. While you may get an occasional exception, you just aren't going to get much quality entertainment from a market that sells games at an MSRP of between $20-$30.

I think some people forget just how much many of those classic games from the 90's cost, especially if you adjust for inflation.

Day of the Tentacle CD: ~$103 ($70)
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis CD: ~$103 ($70)
Under a Killing Moon: ~$143 ($100)
Dagger of Amon Ra CD: ~$106 ($70)
Journeyman Project: ~$118 ($80)
Myst: ~$88 ($60)
King's Quest 4: ~$108 ($60)

The 1st number is the approximate MSRP adjusted for inflation and the number in parentheses is the actual MSRP at release, both rounded to the nearest dollar. Those are just random examples; I wouldn't consider all of them “top class”.

I can pretty much guarantee that if publishers could sell games at those prices, there would be a lot more classics being made now and the general quality of games would be far greater. Of course, how many of you would be willing to pay those prices? Practically no one. You are getting exactly what you pay for. Small investments tend to yield small returns...