[AndreaDraco83]

This thread motivated me to finally play this game. At first I was a bit disappointed but eventually, as the story progressed, it really grew on me. Even if the story is too Japanese in its style and storytelling - with its labyrinthine ways and obscure foreshadowing - for my taste, I'm really enthralled by Eike's story and by its interactions (and ramifications). So, instead of cramming a thread intended for speaking about the new release, I made another thread for us to talk about the game.

So far I've got two endings, A and B

Spoiler:

Ending A: Eike then realizes he was a pawn. All the time he thought he was saving his own life, it was really to ensure Homunculus was born. Homunculus tells Eike he did save them both, then requests the Digipad back. Eike complies, but accidentally drops the device, which sends a shard into Homunculus and kills him. Eike declares it was fate that befell the creature. Margarete is adopted by the Eckerts, who feel almost like they got their daughter back. She and Eike are at the park where they find a tree, in the spot where Homunculus died. Inside the tree is the Philosopher's stone.

Ending B: Eike finds Homunculus and then returns to the present. When the time comes, Hugo is fed up and decides to abandon Margarete in the present, which will corrupt history. Mr. Eckert appears and wrestles Hugo, telling him to value what he still has, not take it out on others. Hugo apologizes and returns to the past with Margarete, and Eckert leaves. Eike returns the Digipad, then decides to have a drink at the bar to celebrate living.

The Ending B was both nice and slightly disappointing, while Ending A was really good in my opinion. Should I consider trying and get even the other endings? Are they worth the effort?

[ukpetd]

From what I remember you probably got the two best endings. However the others are worth exploring. Seeing Homunculus carring off the baby (stop him/her or not?) is interesting.

I played this game on the PC. Good graphics for it's time. Enjoy.

[AndreaDraco83]

There is one thing that bugs me. I think that I have understood the story pretty well, but there are two details that befuddle me.

Spoiler:

1. Where did Mr. Wagner go? Homunculus said that he's still alive in 2001, so I guess that he became immortal with the Philosopher's Stone or that he built a time-traveling device like his desperate son, Hugo

2. Why Eike? I mean this whole time-traveling thing must have started somewhere, somewhen. Why was it Eike in the first place? What is his connection to the Wagner family?

[fov]

The answers to both of those questions are revealed in endings C-E.

[AndreaDraco83]

Got two more endings, another classified as B and the C Ending.

Spoiler:

B2 Ending: Eike discovers the fortune teller's identity. Eike convinces Hugo to enter the hut, where his mother's spirit collapses the building with him in it, killing him. Homunculus appears and Eike talks about being a pawn. Eike returns Margarete to her own time, returns to the present, and gives Homunculus the Digipad back. Eike decides to have a drink at the bar to celebrate living.

C Ending: Eike travels to 1580 and enters the ruined lab. While Hugo searches for his father's research a huge time machine appears in the room and an elderly Hugo steps out, offering to teach the younger Hugo how to use his time machine. Eike gets out of hiding and frightens the elder Hugo. Old Hugo tries to escape, threatening Margarete, but Hugo intervenes by grabbing him. This results in a dimensional paradox and both Hugos cease to exist. Eike goes back to find Homunculus completely alone and then learns he's Homonculus' pawn. After Homunculus leaves Eike with a cryptic farewell, Eike realizes he has been missing the beauty in the world, and lies down in the street to look at the stars. Two drunk men then run him over in their car.

(I forgot to mention early: ending descriptions are from Wikipedia; this saved me from writing everything down )

I was rather disappointed by the second B ending, which I found slightly anti-climatic. On the other hand, the C Ending, even if it is obviously sad, is extremely poetic and kind of "right" from a karmic perspective. Now, I'm replaying the game from the beginning, because I know from a walkthrough that I have to make a different choice halfway through the game to get the D and E finales. The wonderful thing is that now that I know what the required actions are for each chapter, I feel more free to explore the city and the other eras...

... And this brought up another question:

Spoiler:

What's up with the man and the woman constantly looking for each other? Is there a way I can get them to met or they are supposed to perpetually searching for their soulmate?

[fov]

I think the C ending was the first I got, and man, was I depressed. It was like, after ALL THAT,

Spoiler:

he still dies?!

Definitely the saddest of the bunch.

It's been a while since I played this game and I might give it a replay... it's been long enough that it'll probably feel new(ish) all over again. One of the chapters that really stands out to me is the one in the snow, with the baby. Just so creepy. I liked Time Hollow a lot but wish it had had some of Shadow of Destiny's replayability.

After you get all of the endings you'll get to play an alternate version of the first one or two chapters, which has a bit of a strange ending but is a neat thing to see.

To answer your last question...

Spoiler:

No, they're always looking for each other and you're never able to reunite them, which is weird since they're sometimes only a block or so away from each other. I think they're supposed to be symbolic and I may have had a theory at one point about their roles, but I'm forgetting it now...

Something I love about this game is how much thought and analysis can go into what's happening. Most games don't leave you thinking about them as much as this one when they're over.

[Fien]

How about a community playthrough, fov?

[AndreaDraco83]

Originally Posted by fov

I think the C ending was the first I got, and man, was I depressed. It was like, after ALL THAT,

Spoiler:

he still dies?!

Definitely the saddest of the bunch.

I agree that it was sad, but at least...

Spoiler:

Eike finally realizes how beautiful life is, how extraordinary are even the more ordinary things. What I found poetic in it, is that Eike dies after realizing it, almost as if the whole adventure were a quest he had to endure to eventually understand this truth

Originally Posted by fov

One of the chapters that really stands out to me is the one in the snow, with the baby. Just so creepy. I liked Time Hollow a lot but wish it had had some of Shadow of Destiny's replayability.

It was a beautiful chapter, even my favorite must be the second one.

Spoiler:

The one where Eike visits for the first time the Dark Ages, and he must scare away the bigot villagers with his cell-phone. Margarete's kind and innocent response to the bigotry and the rudeness and the ignorance of the townsfolk really touched a cord

As for Time Hollow, it's on my buy list after I've complete Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton.

[Marvellous G]

I wouldn't expect such great things from Time Hollow. I played them in 'reverse order', as it were (TH first, then SoM) and I was extremely pleasantly surprised by Shadow. That's not to say that Time Hollow is bad, it's just that I found the inital intrigue wore off as it dragged on. I got ending A, and I'd be up for playing through again in a community playthrough if others are.

[AndreaDraco83]

A playthrough would be really interesting, even if slightly difficult due to the game's non-linearity.

[Marvellous G]

We could each go for a different ending, although I'm sure that would end up chaotically.

[AndreaDraco83]

I got two more endings, the D one and the E one. I'll copy their description (from Wikipedia) down here, because this time around I'm a little puzzled and I could use a little help.

Spoiler:

D Ending: Eike finds Wagner's notes about the stone and burns them, just as Hugo and Margarete enter. When they leave, Eike returns to the present. Hugo begins to fade away, while his past self tries to read the burning notes; upon which past Margarete convinces him to help find their father. Hugo completely vanishes, then Margarete follows soon after. Eike talks with Homunculus and asks a question about Wagner, who avoids answering and takes back the Digipad. Dr. Wagner's discovery is revealed when he is shown working in his lab, moments before its destruction. Homunculus is created and tells Wagner he can have a wish, but at the cost of his soul. Wagner laments his lost years. Upon wishing for eternal youth, Wagner tries to reseal the creature with a pentagram, who retaliates by erasing Wagner's memories. When the smoke clears, the viewer can see that Wagner actually is Eike. Eike/Wagner picks up the stone, then aimlessly wanders the town, with no memory of who he is.

E Ending: Eike goes to 1580 and enters the lab, where he finds Margarete who is wondering where Hugo went and why there is a strange machine in the basement. Eike asks Margarete to come with him to Eike's time, and she agrees. When they arrive, Margarete tries to reason with Hugo, slaps him, and finally he backs down. Hugo promises to destroy his time machine when they get back home, and they leave via his time machine outside the city. Homunculus gets the Digipad back and he tells Eike the fate of Dr.Wagner: once freed from his seal Wagner wishes to never see Homunculus again at which point he arranges for his permanent departure and gains his soul. Dana comments on how Hugo makes her think of how her brother would be, if she had one. Dana is still a bit upset about missing four years of her life, and Eike assumes responsibility. Dana tells him he sounds like a father, and they walk away together.

Now, I still think that I have understood the story in its general lines, but I always thought that the different endings only revealed different possible outcomes, while leaving untouched what happened in the past. But D Ending and E ending are in clear contradiction.

Spoiler:

In the first one, Dr. Wagner wishes for eternal youth and in the second one, Dr. Wagner wishes for Homunculus to disappear and H. kills Dr. Wagner, contradicting what he said in Ending A, about Dr. Wagner was still alive - of course, it's Eike

But let's assume for a second that D Ending is right. The whole story makes sense again, even if I have a question

Spoiler:

If Eike, before living up until the present, banished H., how did Homunculus managed to give him the Digipad in the first place? Is H. weak because, before the whole time paradox (that is before Eike went back to the past to give the stone to himself), H. was kind of stuck in a middle-place? This way H.'s motivation is two-fold: 1) Ensure that Hugo didn't nullified his existence by getting a hold of the Philosopher's Stone and 2) Ensure that the forgetful Eike corrected the past (since his past-self banished H.) by making him fully powerful again - in fact, in this ending, the experiment is successful and house has exploded, so Eike didn't really accomplished nothing

But if the E ending is "canon"/right, then...

Spoiler:

By killing Dr. Wagner, didn't H. just prevented him to grow, immortal, in the forgetful Eike from the future that did gave the Stone to his past-self?

You have no idea how much does my head hurt...

[AndreaDraco83]

I got the Extra Ending - how beautiful it was!

Spoiler:

Finally, after all the time-travels, after all the revelations, after all the manipulations (damn you, Homunculus!), Eike manages to end the time loop and fades away, like a memory... How incredibly powerful and poetic!

Now, I'm only missing a single piece. What really happened after the experiment?

Spoiler:

Dr. Wagner asked for eternal youth and banished homunculus or H. banished him - he can't have killed Dr. Wagner, otherwise he would have never been born!

I know from an online walkthrough that I've only an ending left to discover (a second Extra ending), but - even as this is - I'm really happy that I played the game. Originally I was disappointed, but in the end it was a wondrous experience. Very rich.

[PolloDiablo]

I have played this game on my PS2 but somehow never finished it. I'd like to join in a community playthrough, IF it starts at least a week after the GamesCom (gotta write previews and stuff first).

[AndreaDraco83]

I finally finished the game, experiencing all the eight endings. I'm really satisfied. Shadow of Memories is one of the finest games I've played, all in all, and a really incredible adventure, unique. If we decide to make a playthrough out of it, it would be really wonderful to experience once again the many ramifications of this story.

Meanwhile, here is my interpretation of the story.

Spoiler:

Eike is basically in a time loop, because the day when Hugo tries to kill him is the same day he goes back in time to create the situation that motivated Hugo to kill him in the first place. This also means, that H., even if he has been banished by Dr. Wagner, has somehow found a way out of his prison, because he has to help Eike going back in time to preserve its creation and to free himself from the prison (he insists many time on how weak his body is). In this context, the multiple endings represent different and possible outcomes of the same loop, based on Eike's decisions - it's the coffee/tea example that Homunculus uses to explain the frying pan paradox.

If this is the case, and - after experiencing a possible ending - Eike retains some memories (this is way I found the European title more spot-on) of what happened, this explains why in the Extra ending, when he has a perfect understanding of all the plausible outcomes, Eike is able to defeat Homunculus and break the circle, nullifying himself in the act (he's Dr. Wagner, in the end, and if H. never existed - by convincing his past-self to use the Stone for Helena or by throwing the Stone (H. present self) to Homunculus (H. past-self), as happened with the two Hugos (C Ending) - his present, forgetful self can't exist either

If this theory is true, and the beauty of the game is that it can mean a lot of things, this may also explain the man and woman constantly looking for each other, as if...

Spoiler:

... they were a metaphor of Eike constantly looking for his identity, since Homunculus cursed him with forgetfulness. At a certain point, the woman even makes a comment on time, love and memory.

With all being said, aside from the two Extra ending, which are, in my opinion, the perfect way to wrap up the game, if I have to choose one of the multiple possible universes that Eike experiences, I'd choose:

Spoiler:

The A ending, because Dana(Real Margarete) is in her rightful time and Margarete(Real Dana) ditto and because it possibly hints at the end of the time loop (Homunculus is satisfied with the result, being created and never banished, and Hugo defeated) and because Eike is with Margarete, which made my sappy side happy .