[Tabbu]

Nowdays I dream about it alot. I've played many newer adventure games like Syberia and Brokensword 3 and of course adored old Lucasarts games. Monkey Island 2 practically struck me. I could never imagine that games could be so entertaining and well done. Music was also fantastic (I had PC speaker then).

Where I'm getting here is that I wonder where is THE adventure game that has a deep plot, amazing graphics, interesting characters.. ..all that. Syberia had nice clean pre-rendered backrounds and 3d characters. But what I hated was that backrounds where so static! There was some water animation and birds flying but nothing else. It really ruined the realism for me. Syberia had a nice plot and interesting characters, but main character's design was really dull. BS3 had a little better 3d graphics and moody lighting, but it had the same problems that Syberia: Too clean and static. BS3's plot was.. ..oh well, inadvertently funny. I enjoyed the conversations in BS3.

What I don't understand that why these 3d adventures can't look as good as the dull shooting games? Realistic enviroments could set the player in right mood and support the story. One of the best moody and dynamic graphics I've seen was on Blade Runner. It's old game but still I haven't seen so beautiful outdoor backrounds. There was rain, fog and backround was in constant movement. Characters where done with hazy pixels, but other than that...

Also games that I adore are Silent Hill series. I've played only the 3rd and saw little bit of the beginning of 2nd one. I hate the monster hitting and killing, but the characters, plot and graphics are wonderful. Once I played the SH 3 I thought many times that this engine could be great in adventure games. Film grain made 3d look more real and not clean and static. Characters are very detailed and the dynamic shadows! Astonishing.

So after all this text, my dream adventure games is: Moody, deep plot like Silent Hill 2. Main character that has interesting personality and who I would care. I want real emotions, drama, cries and laughs ( maybe not Lucasarts fun but fun). Real life like graphics that could be pre-rendered dynamic backrounds like in Blade Runner, or realtime 3d like in SH3 or mix of both. More puzzles that are about communication and interreaction with npc's. Maybe a number of solutions to puzzles whould be logical in some cases. "Why I can't do that" is the question that comes often to my head. Soundtrack is also very important. I'm composer myself and I know the importance of good actors, fx and music.

I wrote mainly about graphics. Althought they don't make the game, they can support it and make it more convincing to player. Graphics are the weakest link in nowday adventures. Well that's what I think.

I'm still waiting that dream game

I have so many ideas for a adventure game! Only if I could write a code

i dont require mutch for my adventure, i need a really good storie line and decent gameplay/controls to go with it.

[The Seed]

The perfect adventure?

Take everything from Grim Fandango, mix it in with the sheer scale and humour of Monkey Island 2, and the puzzles of DOTT.

Thats it for me.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Tabbu

Where I'm getting here is that I wonder where is THE adventure game that has a deep plot, amazing graphics, interesting characters.. ..all that. Syberia had nice clean pre-rendered backrounds and 3d characters. But what I hated was that backrounds where so static! There was some water animation and birds flying but nothing else. It really ruined the realism for me. Syberia had a nice plot and interesting characters, but main character's design was really dull. BS3 had a little better 3d graphics and moody lighting, but it had the same problems that Syberia: Too clean and static. BS3's plot was.. ..oh well, inadvertently funny. I enjoyed the conversations in BS3.

We have to accept the fact the adventure genre is the worst culprit as far as avoiding progressiveness and experimentation. Too many people prefer its status quo, which may help foster a refinement of the genre, but in the end prevents it from growing and diversifying. Although I loved Syberia, I do agree with you that it looked and felt too clean and static, i.e. stagnant. And I don't mean lack of NPCs walking around. The world felt clinical because it didn't move - it didn't convince me that it was a living, breathing world.

But have you played the Syberia II demo? It's much better, it looks and feel more 'live' than its prequel, the cinematography (for lack of a better word) is exquisite. I feel Syberia II to be a distillation of the beautiful, classic 2D adventure game.

What I don't understand that why these 3d adventures can't look as good as the dull shooting games?

Now for all you reading this response, do not erroneously think for one second that I hate 2D. I mean, you've just read my admiration for Syberia II above.

Why can't 3d adventures can't look as good as the dull shooting games? Because adventure game developers don't take the trouble, but more realistically many of them don't have the budget to take advantage of good graphics engines. There are many of us here who are happy enough with a good story and good puzzles. But who the hell am I fooling when I tell myself that? Why just stop at that? Why do devs and gamers always think that that's where it should end? Why should I merely be happy with good story and puzzles and have to put up with boring, boring, boring, outdated graphics and art direction? We have MAJOR proof in other genres and within the adventure genre that graphics can enrich the adventure experience so much more beyond merely being window dressing. Just look at the stunning hyperrealistic beauty of Max Payne 2, the cool cel shaded look of XIII, or the jawdroppingly exotic Uru? I mean, I consider Uru to be one of very few benchmarks for how supremely gorgeous AND immersive an adventure game can be.

I think that a game like Jack The Ripper would have made a fantastic real time 3D adventure in first person perspective, but as it stands it was a budget title and they devs couldn't afford it. Truly a pity, because I feel it could have been far more immersive and suspenseful.

Also games that I adore are Silent Hill series. I've played only the 3rd and saw little bit of the beginning of 2nd one. I hate the monster hitting and killing, but the characters, plot and graphics are wonderful. Once I played the SH 3 I thought many times that this engine could be great in adventure games. Film grain made 3d look more real and not clean and static. Characters are very detailed and the dynamic shadows! Astonishing.

So after all this text, my dream adventure games is: Moody, deep plot like Silent Hill 2.

Real life like graphics that could be pre-rendered dynamic backrounds like in Blade Runner, or realtime 3d like in SH3 or mix of both. More puzzles that are about communication and interreaction with npc's. Maybe a number of solutions to puzzles whould be logical in some cases. "Why I can't do that" is the question that comes often to my head.

There's been a number of discussions here about freedom of choice for the player in regards the puzzles. You can do a search to find the threads.

Soundtrack is also very important. I'm composer myself and I know the importance of good actors, fx and music.

This is definitely one major area adventure devs are moronically ignoring. Playing The Watchmaker, one of the reasons I said "F#&k this, I'm just gonna use a walkthrough and finish this piece of mediocre crap to get it out of the way!" was that the voice acting was one of the absolute worst I've ever heard. That and the horrible character models, the lame animations, and the flat out boring camera work in terms of narrative. The presentation sucked.

I wrote mainly about graphics. Althought they don't make the game, they can support it and make it more convincing to player. Graphics are the weakest link in nowday adventures. Well that's what I think.

Oh, yes, graphics DO make the game - more specifically, they help enrich the experience and immersion for the player. I think story and puzzles are most important, but graphics should also play a major role. Don't let anyone BS you into thinking otherwise. I mean, for cripe's sakes, they're GRAPHIC adventures. You don't play them with your eyes closed, thereby why give us mediocre, boring graphics and awfully dull art direction? I think originality in story, art direction, puzzle design, and good graphics are the weakest aspects in adventures right now.

[Tabbu]

Originally Posted by The Seed

The perfect adventure?

Take everything from Grim Fandango, mix it in with the sheer scale and humour of Monkey Island 2, and the puzzles of DOTT.

Thats it for me.

I was thinking more realistic and darker story, but as fan of Lucasarts adventures that game would be a must buy

And thanks for Intrepid Homoludens for your thoughts. You had interesting observations.

[maladroid]

The Seed pretty much read my mind Grim Fandango had it all but a little paranoid Monkey Island humour and the absolutely brilliant puzzles of DOTT wouldn't do any harm..

In general though I don't really think there could ever be an adventure game that would be considered by everyone as THE Adventure.. For example, I believe that Grim was the most flawless adventure ever but still my favourite one is Pandora Directive Go figure..

[Sumaleth]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

We have to accept the fact the adventure genre is the worst culprit as far as avoiding progressiveness and experimentation. Too many people prefer its status quo, which may help foster a refinement of the genre, but in the end prevents it from growing and diversifying.

I'm not sure that an accurate summation.

Well, it might be, but what are you basing that belief on?

I mean, I look at the Adventure genre and it must be one of the most diverse genres around, and probably the most diverse. Experimentation is all over the game list: again, more than any other genre I would have to say.

The adventure genre lacks two things: higher quality games and a bigger audience.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by Sumaleth

I'm not sure that an accurate summation.

Well, it might be, but what are you basing that belief on?

I mean, I look at the Adventure genre and it must be one of the most diverse genres around, and probably the most diverse. Experimentation is all over the game list: again, more than any other genre I would have to say.

The adventure genre lacks two things: higher quality games and a bigger audience.

I'm sorry, but I have to side completely with Trep here. The graphic adventure genre, in its youngest years, was responsible for some big innovations but since then it really has hardly changed at all, much less innovated. Can you give some solid reasoning and evidence as to why you think the adventure genre is the most diverse and experimental of genres? That seems quite far-fetched to me.

[sillycanadian]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

But have you played the Syberia II demo? It's much better, it looks and feel more 'live' than its prequel, the cinematography (for lack of a better word) is exquisite. I feel Syberia II to be a distillation of the beautiful, classic 2D adventure game.

You mean the snow falling? Cause that's about the only difference.

[Risingson]

I think that there is no need for a canon. We need diverse adventure games, in scope, in perspective, in ways of narrating... we just need an adventure like Syberia sitting close to Uru, Tex Murphy:Overseer, Toonstruck and Obsidian (just to name the most diverse I can think at the moment), and then judge them as artistic achievements: the difference between what they try to achieve and what they actually achieve. So no need for THE adventure. I just want all kind of adventures.

[Sumaleth]

Originally Posted by remixor

I'm sorry, but I have to side completely with Trep here. The graphic adventure genre, in its youngest years, was responsible for some big innovations but since then it really has hardly changed at all, much less innovated. Can you give some solid reasoning and evidence as to why you think the adventure genre is the most diverse and experimental of genres? That seems quite far-fetched to me.

Perhaps our definitions of diversity are different - or what we would base diversity on - but I personally base it on variation in gameplay and approach:

. Emphasis on story, puzzles, or a balance of both.

. Emphasis on experience or interaction or both.

. Environments: 2D handdrawn, 2D rendered, 3D, photographic.

. Use of cinematics or no cinematics.

. Characters: hand animated, 3d animated, photographic.

. Story: comedy, serious, horror, supernatural, historical, pun, scifi, realism, suspense, mystery, investigation. Populated worlds, sparse worlds.

. Interface: typing, keyboard-direct control, mouse-direct control, point-and-click. Large verb menus, small verb menus, context sensitive actions. First person, second person, third person, no person.

. Puzzle types: Dialogue, conversation, Object with object, Object with environment, Mechanical, Word puzzles, cryptograms, anagrams, Classics (jumping peg, chess, checkers, etc), Strategic, Translation, Riddles, Decoding, decyphering, decrypting, Physics, Mixing, chemistry, Tape splicing, Numerical, Using traits/skills of other characters, Jigsaw, torn paper, Musical, sound, Bribery, Mathematical, Timing, action, twitch, Mazes, Sliding, internet-interaction, right-place-at-right-time. Abstract, realism, lateral-thinking.

. Adventure games have experimented with: action elements, RPG elements, strategy elements, exploration, confined puzzles, linearity, different types of non-linearity, realtime worlds, single-room worlds, all manner of interfaces, graphics/no-graphics, all graphical and graphics styles, etc etc etc etc.

. The adventure genre has seen a wide range of sub-genres (and has even lead to the creation of entirely new genres): interactive-fiction, graphical, action-adventure, rpg-adventure, survival, point-and-click, direct-control, the whole range of 1st- 2nd- and 3rd-person, and even no-person, artificial intelligence, multiplayer etc.

--

I could keep going, but that's a fair example of what I consider diversity within the adventure genre.

I haven't sat down and made similar lists for the more mainstream genres - platformers, shootemups, FPS, rpg, sports, etc - but I don't think you're going to find anywhere near the same variation you see in adventure games. To me, the adventure genre is so wide ranging that I even wonder if it's not several real genres lumped under one title.

I don't know. How is your thinking different?

[Kingzjester]

I just read this long list in the same voice George Carlin delivers his extended list of words you cannot say on TV, all nicely subdivided into categories. I laughed.