[thatha]

Is this website just for pure adventure game?

I love adventure games such as King Quests, Police Quests, Blade Runner, Moment of Silence, and some other I can't recall.. But my all time favourite game is Hitman which I consider as adventure game. People put this under shooting or action/adventure. Just wonder what you guys think bout this game? And does any of you like this game at all?
Also wondering what define a game as adventure.. Does it always have to be point and click with alot of talking?
Because again about Hitman, it has strong storyline and there is a continuity of every mission that link them together. It also definitely makes you think a lot the way adventure game does, but with killing and stuff..

Just want to know what y'all think..

[thatha]

I think I put the wrong title there... On second thought, I was actually wanted to discuss more about action/adventure games but not sure if this is the right place... Not about the definition or whatsoever but to discuss bout the game itself.

[Tyrant]

Well you can discuss action/adventure games here.
But there is only pure adventure games on this site.
But think people could discuss action aswell

[SSH]

Well, "pure" adventure is a hard line to draw, but AG certainly strays less from the path of the righteous than some websites...

[D.C.]

I love the Hitman games (especially Hitman 2) and the non-linear level designs and mission objectives. Great series. I wouldn't consider them adventures, though - but they definately have traits of adventure games. Just the evolution of another genre taking on these traits as they become more cinematic.

[MoriartyL]

I like Hitman a lot, but in no way is it an adventure. It's an action game. It combines shooting with stealth, but since both of those are sub-forms of the action game, it's an action game through and through. What- anything that makes you use your brain you automatically classify as an adventure?

There are a bunch of different definitions of adventure you'd get from the good people of this forum, and I doubt if any of them would include Hitman unless you started making terms like "puzzle" or "story" so vague that just about any type of game could be called an "adventure". My personal view of adventures is basically that they're a type of fiction which is only slightly interactive, so that the player's actions are not shaping the world around him so much as uncovering it. Hitman is so far from that definition, there's nothing to discuss- It's a game where the player is given a sandbox of action "toys" and let loose. The story is largely irrelevant to the gameplay, the exploring is purely practical. ("Where would be the best place to shoot from?") It's not what I'd consider a work of fiction at all on the developers' part, since the course of each level is almost entirely in the player's hands.

[akane_t]

Most of the mebers of this forum would agree to the definition of Adventure Games outlined in the What are adventure games? article.

Originally Posted by What are adventure games written by Marek Bronstring

Genre definition
Adventure games focus on puzzle solving within a narrative framework. There are generally few or no action elements. Other popular names for this genre of computer games are “graphic adventure” or “point-and-click adventure”.

Adventure games are not: role-playing games that involve action, team-building and points management; 3D action/adventure games such as Tomb Raider; side-scroller action games such as Mario or Rayman; puzzle games like Pandora’s Box or Tetris

Adventure Gamers as a site basically adheres to the definition above with its coverage of adventure games. As MoriatyL observed, Hitman has too many action elements to be considered an adventure game and hence games such as Hitman won't be covered by the staff at Adventure Gamers and the Adventure section of the forum is probably not a good place to discuss them.

If you want to discuss games like Hitman, you should check out the General section of this forum. You can discuss any type of games there and there are a handful of gamers who are passionate and very knowledgeable about gaming spend their time there.

http://forums.adventuregamers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3

[MoriartyL]

Well, I don't agree that an adventure with a lot of action scenes shouldn't be recognized as an adventure (Just look at Snatcher!), but at least we can agree that Hitman is not an adventure.

[CrimsonBlue]

A PURE adventure game is a game that contains no or very little action scenes. My idea of an adventure game is Monkey Island, Fate of Atlantis, Day of the Tentacle, Leisure Suit Larry 1-7, King's Quest, Syberia, Longest Journey.

There are of course cross dressers here and there, like Fahrenheit, Hitman or even Psychonauts. These are games that blend adventure game elements into the catagory it natively belong in. Psychonauts for example, is generally a platformer, but you have puzzles and ways to approach the solution to the levels that very much reminds you of the classic adventure games.

I consider a lot of jrpgs, like Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger, to have plenty of adventure game elements, but it's still not an adventure game. However, I play these games mainly for the story, and if the story doesn't interest me, I have no motive to continue. That's pretty much the same way as with adventure games to me.

[sethsez]

Psychonauts ain't adventure by any stretch, at least in the sense this site uses, and if it weren't for the involvement of Tim Schafer I doubt anyone would have come to that conclusion. It does have the occasional puzzle, but nothing more than similar 3D platformers have.

As for the eternal "is this an adventure" thing, I think the confusion comes because most game genre descriptors have some link to how the game plays. Shooters involve shooting, racing games involve racing, puzzle games typically involve arranging abstract pieces together in certain ways, etc. "Adventure" doesn't really describe the mechanics in any self-evident way, and frequently doesn't describe the content either (a story that takes place entirely in a mansion doesn't really fit the classic definition of the word). As a game genre title, it's pretty much got its own definition separate from all other definitions of the word, which does understandably lead to problems.

[Giligan]

I've always considered Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine to be an excellent example of an adventure game. It contained action, thinking, puzzles, exploring, and combat, and turned it into an excellent package.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by CrimsonBlue

There are of course cross dressers here and there, like Fahrenheit, Hitman or even Psychonauts. These are games that blend adventure game elements into the catagory it natively belong in. Psychonauts for example, is generally a platformer, but you have puzzles and ways to approach the solution to the levels that very much reminds you of the classic adventure games.

Oy this is frustrating. Psychonauts is not a "cross-dresser" just because it has puzzles, or even because it was made by an adventure writer. If it reminds you of adventure games, it's just you, not the game. Not every game with puzzles should immediately be compared to adventure games! And Hitman? Again, an action game. No "adventure game elements", just assorted action game elements.

I consider a lot of jrpgs, like Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger, to have plenty of adventure game elements, but it's still not an adventure game. However, I play these games mainly for the story, and if the story doesn't interest me, I have no motive to continue. That's pretty much the same way as with adventure games to me.

Same way with movies for me. So, should I talk about how movies have "adventure game elements" because they've got stories?! Or should I start calling a Rubik's Cube a "partial adventure" because it makes you use your brain? Heck, why not just say that all computer games are partially adventures, because they use a mouse and you click on things?! Just because there are tiny similarities between a purely non-adventure and a pure adventure doesn't mean they're related in any significant way.



sethsez, different types of games are defined in different ways. The sports game isn't defined by particular gameplay mechanics, it's defined by its ties to existing (real-world) sports. The simulation isn't defined by its specific rules, it's defined by its addictive micromanagement. The casual game is defined by its accessibility. So it's not particularly notable that adventures are defined differently than other types of games.

[Hammerite]

does anyone REALLY care though?

[akane_t]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

does anyone REALLY care though?

Well, I'm sure Jack cares when he has to make a decision on whether to cover a game on AG or not. And I for one care too. Even though I do play games in other genres, at times, nothing other than an adventure game, it is my favorite genre after all, would satisfy my gaming craving. The reason why I like this site so much and have been visiting it for years now is the fact that if the site covers a game as an adventure game, I can take it on blind faith that it is an adventure game to me too. In that way, AG is an invaluable source of information to me.

[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

does anyone REALLY care though?

Yeah. I mean, REALLY.

[Crapstorm]

I started to care for a while, but then the effects of the concussion wore off.

[Flyboy]

I always found the term itself a bit deceiving. I have a pretty good idea in my head of what an adventure game is and quite frankly couldn't care less if someone else saw it differently. What I find strange though is how the term "adventure" has become associated with genre, since action and adventure tend to go hand in hand. Not that I've ever played them, but the Tomb Raider games always looked like 'adventures' to me, in the classical sense of the word. But then again, so is playing D&D or going on a road trip with friends.

It's hard to see how a playable policeman's handbook is more so a game about adventure than stealing cars for mob bosses. I guess it has more to do with how the game is played than the actual content. But then 'adventure' is really nothing more than a term associated with a genre which can't really be summed up in one word.

[sethsez]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

sethsez, different types of games are defined in different ways. The sports game isn't defined by particular gameplay mechanics, it's defined by its ties to existing (real-world) sports. The simulation isn't defined by its specific rules, it's defined by its addictive micromanagement. The casual game is defined by its accessibility. So it's not particularly notable that adventures are defined differently than other types of games.

They're not as descriptive, true, but they're still accurate to their dictionary definitions. Sports games are still about sports, and simulations... well, simulate things. Adventure games very frequently don't match up with any other definition of "adventure." Without any former knowledge of the genre, telling someone you're playing a sports game will probably give them a fairly accurate idea of what you're playing (though they might picture the wrong sport), but telling them you're playing an adventure game (if you're playing, say, one of the Law & Order titles) will most likely send them down the completely wrong path. It's just not an accurate term for how the genre works, and for someone not versed in the genre's history it's quite a counter-intuitive descriptor. There's a reason, after all, why this genre gets far more "is it or isn't it" debate than racing, or FPS, or strategy, or what have you.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by sethsez

Adventure games very frequently don't match up with any other definition of "adventure." ... There's a reason, after all, why this genre gets far more "is it or isn't it" debate than racing, or FPS, or strategy, or what have you.

Oh, I see what you're saying now. Unfortunately, bad terms have a way of sticking- just look at "comic book"! And in the adventure's case, there isn't really any well-known alternative. So I think it's too late to solve this problem.

[Rapp Scallion]

Trying to find a definition for Adventure Games is really, really hard. A story is often important, but then some games doesn't have much a story, especially in the past. Puzzles is another important thing, but nowdays most of the so called AG games doesn't have much puzzles. So puzzles gets less and less important and stories get more in the focus.

The graphics and sound (music) also gets more important since the computers are so much more capable than in the 80's.

Some say action doesn't have anything to do with adventure games, but many, including favorites like the two Indiana Jones games have some action elements.

In the beginning wasn't Adventure Games much the same as Adventure Movies? Big Hollywood Movies with treasure hunting like Indiana Jones, Pirate movies, Robin Hood, fantasy movies and movies set in the past like the Middle Ages. King's Quest and before that games like Zork and Colossal Cave Adventure all had those exploration of unknown territories, treasure hunting and often fantasy elements.

But after that have the adventure games moved beyond that and have been set in less "adventurous territories". Just look at Sierra or LucasArts. Space Quest and the Dig are science fiction. Leisure suits Larry, Police Quest, Maniac Mansion and Day after the Tentacle are set in the present, and don't have that many fantasy elements.

If King's Quest or Monkey Island became movies they probably would be called adventure movies, but LSL, MM or Space Quest probably wouldn't. Still I don't think many would exclude The Dig or Police Quest.

So why are not Zelda, Castlevania, Tomb Raider, Prince of Persia, Another World/Flashback, Metal Gear, Metroid, Final Fantasy and many other games not adventure games? Many of the games have lot in common with "pure adventure games"? I think it's because the action and/or RPG playing in those games overshadow the typical fetch quests, interacting with characters and puzzles that still are common in typical adventure games.