[shadow9d9]

I posted this in another forum but I figured I'd get your advice as well.

Quick background: I have played Grim Fandango, Curse of Monkey Island, Zork Nemesis, Zork grand inquisitor, day of the tentacle, sam and max, monkey island 1-2, and part of riven. I just recently revived my interest in adventure games...

Relevant to this post: I absolutely loved Zork Nemesis because of its atmosphere, story, and extremely logical and integrated puzzles. Zork grand inquisitor was average at best, and some of the puzzle solutions were a little too oddball(not logical) for me(which is to expect of non Nemesis Zorks from what I hear). I did not like Riven because I found it overwhelming, with no direction , and even though I thought I took good notes(which I didn't mind doing), I got to a point where I hit a brick wall and really had no idea which direction to go, what was solvable.. and I thought I had pretty much taken all the notes I could... It just didn't have the charisma of Nemesis, didn't give enough direction, which nemesis had, and had less ambience/story than Nemesis, and I had to give up... Knowing this--->

3 days ago I got my wife(mainly non gamer) into her first adventure game, Syberia... she seems to love it... For her next game, I'd like to introduce her to a first person adventure game, to get her to experience something new.

I have accumulated the following games:
3rd person:Syberia 1 and 2, Longest journey, Runaway, Still Life

1st person: Amerzone, Scratches,Barrow hill, and Dark fall..

Of the last 4 games(can't remember if still life is first person), which would be the most newbie friendly of these first person adventures in the terms of: reasonable and integrated puzzles, decent direction, not too overwhelming, etc... Meaning, more Zork Nemesis and less Riven... Feel free to add any other first person adventures that you think may fit this description even better(I hear amerzone is good, but too easy... and I don't want too easy either if possible-Nemesis was perfect for me and therefore what I am using to compare against).

If you recommend Amerzone as the solution, do you feel that it istoo similar in style to Syberia(same creator) to jump into next?

Any insights would be most helpful.

[Melanie68]

She should definitely end up playing all 4. I would say either Amerzone (which has an exotic feel to it) or Barrow Hill (scary but not gory). Just remember to look everywhere in Barrow Hill. It's not pixel hunting but there are lots of nooks and crannies to explore.

[Dara100]

Riven was one of my favorite games ever. I needed help just once and found it was my own fault for not closing a door that then revealed another passage. I learned a lot from that clue about how adventure games required thorough searching that helped me get even more enjoyment out of subsequent games.

I would recomend that there is no shame in looking at a hint or walkthrough sparingly to get you over a tough spot. Zork Nemesis was good but too easy, I thought. You should both try the original Myst, actually "realLife Myst" if you can find it on ebay or the like Its an updated version of the game and not too hard. It was my first game and I loved it.

[shadow9d9]

No thanks.. I hated Myst... Riven I tried just 6 months ago and even though i took detailed notes, I hate wandering aimlessly and I found the puzzles too obtuse for me.. the puzzles weren't integrated NEARLY as well as Zork Nemesis... Nemesis may have been moderately/easier difficult, but the puzzles were relevant/integral to the story(and it had a great story compared to myst imo) and completely logical... not obtuse like mysts.

I am hoping the 4 1st person adventures I picked are more like Nemesis than the Mysts... I read the reviews carefully.. For example, Keepsake seems like your kind of game.. Some key words in almost all the reviews of it tell me to stay away... To each his own.

Btw, Riven was my first attempt to get my wife into adventure gaming... She wouldn't even look at it after the first 10 minutes... she didn't like the idea of just being dropped into the middle of nowhere.. no story, nothing... As I already said, I gave it a shot.. but I found it too complex... even with all the note taking and all the progress I thought I made. I have no idea how far I was.. but I hate using walkthroughs for even hints.. and I felt that it just wasn't for me...


It is now 6 months later and I decided to give it another shot with her... Syberia turned out to be a great choice .. good story, easier..a good way to ease her in... I don't want to lose that momentum with another huge failure with her like Riven was... so now I am just trying to find a good 1st person adventure to get her into both types...

[Boneho Chane]

Shame you didn't like Riven. I just finished it. It's one of my favorite games of all time. Maybe you look up some hints or something. It will help you out.

[MoriartyL]

I know you haven't considered it (seeing as how you didn't think Riven was right), but I strongly recommend Myst. For better or for worse, it's much more focused than Riven was. A lot more puzzles and a lot of clues which push you in the right direction. And then there are a whole bunch of puzzles which can be solved in several ways - Let's just say it's much easier and welcoming. Riven is meant for the player who already is familiar with the style of Myst. The original Myst, however, is perfect for a newcomer. Just yesterday I gave it (the original 1993 version) to a friend, who has never played any adventures before and had no clue what the Myst series was about, and watched him play. It was really amazing to be reminded of just how well-constructed the puzzles are: He is not exactly the analytical type of person, but within around ten or twenty minutes he was already halfway through solving several puzzles, figuring out what everything on the starting island was for, and figuring out part of the story. There wasn't a moment when he felt at a loss for things to do- in fact, he found so much to do that he kept getting distracted from one puzzle so he could start another! Seriously, Myst. I know you didn't like Riven, but that's irrelevant. Myst is the game to give a new and inexperienced player.

[Fairygdmther]

Amerzone is a good choice, as there is a decent story, and it's not that easy if you're new to adventures. It is gorgeous, with many odd but interesting animals, and there is a wonderful scene through a swampy area where you ride giraffe-like things that is beautifully done. The one incongruous thing is that you revisit a place that this guy had been in the 1930's, I believe, and find 3 1/2" floppies left to give you info.

There are a couple of places where it looks like you might have to fight someone, but it doesn't really happen, so don't let that scare her off. There is much to explore, and Benoit Sokal's amazing visuals make that fun.

If I might recommend one you didn't mention, and can get cheaply - Beyond Atlantis (also called Atlantis II in other than North America). Parts of this are difficult, but it's longer than Amerzone (which is fairly short), and travels to many places. Beyond Atlantis has the most gorgeous cut scene I've ever seen in an adv game. It has some tough puzzles, though. It's 1st person, though you see the guy in the cut scenes quite often. Only one disclaimer here - there are three puzzles involving spiders, though they aren't that real looking, that you have to "beat" - though you don't kill them, you just have to steal from them. If your wife is a spider-phobe, though, it could upset her.

Lynsie

[simpson_yellow]

I'm afraid I haven't played any of the four games you've mentioned (or Zork Nemesis for that matter).

However, if you want a first person adventure with great characters, plenty of atmosphere, and a superb story, I thoroughly recommend The Last Express ( review and screenshots here). The puzzles are very well integrated into the plot and, although occasionally challenging, are still accessible to newbies (I think). It will take a half hour or so to get used the game mechanic as it really is unique, but it's an unforgettable gaming experience.

Others that might be worth a look are Morpheus and Gabriel Knight 3 (the latter is reportedly very good, although I haven't played it)

[Keregioz]

Originally Posted by shadow9d9

I don't want to lose that momentum with another huge failure with her like Riven was... so now I am just trying to find a good 1st person adventure to get her into both types...

IMHO if you don't wan't to lose that momentum, don't introduce her to 1st person adventures...yet. Go the safe road and let her play the 3rd person games you mentioned, i would recommend the longest journey... it has the best story and it's easy. Still life is also very good.
Don't try to make her like the games that you liked. Let her decide, see what elements of syberia she found interesting and go from there.

[shadow9d9]

Originally Posted by Keregioz

IMHO if you don't wan't to lose that momentum, don't introduce her to 1st person adventures...yet. Go the safe road and let her play the 3rd person games you mentioned, i would recommend the longest journey... it has the best story and it's easy. Still life is also very good.
Don't try to make her like the games that you liked. Let her decide, see what elements of syberia she found interesting and go from there.

True, but then when would I be able to introduce her to them?

Also, to the other poster, I actually played myst when I was very young, so most of the game would be spoiled...

[Keregioz]

Just play a couple of 3rd person games to get her addicted and then take some risks with 1st person.

[Dara100]

Good replies all. I've played probably 300 - 400 games and just looked at my list of 100 favorites, and honestly can't find one that I think you'd be satisfied with. Good games need to be taken as they come, played with patience, sweated over and thought about when you're not playing them and leave you with a feeling of well-earned triumph and satisfaction when you've finished them.

It seems to me you are looking for mediocre games that don't require much input from the player and I'm afraid they are the one's that don't stick in the momories of most people who really love games.

That being said, if you pick any one of the games suggested and give them a fair try you may be pleasantly surprised.

[Ninth]

I'd go for Still Life, and then Dark Fall. Both are quite easy, with the exception of two puzzles in Still Life, for which I recommend using a walkthrough, and Still Life will make a good transition between Syberia and Dark Fall.
Note that Dark Fall is really creepy.

Amerzone is very easy, far too easy in my opinion, and didn't really achieve anything for me, but it's considered good.

[shadow9d9]

Originally Posted by Dara100

Good replies all. I've played probably 300 - 400 games and just looked at my list of 100 favorites, and honestly can't find one that I think you'd be satisfied with. Good games need to be taken as they come, played with patience, sweated over and thought about when you're not playing them and leave you with a feeling of well-earned triumph and satisfaction when you've finished them.

It seems to me you are looking for mediocre games that don't require much input from the player and I'm afraid they are the one's that don't stick in the momories of most people who really love games.

That being said, if you pick any one of the games suggested and give them a fair try you may be pleasantly surprised.

Not quite sure why you are saying I am looking for mediocre games... My list of 8 games are all the best ranked at this site and others...

I have now advanced very decently into Syberia, and while it is a decent game, it is way too easy..however, being easy isn't such a bad thing since my wife is new to adventure gaming...

I beat Zork Nemesis when I was 14, and it has lasted in my memory ever since, which is why I use it as a benchmark... things might be easier for me now, but with that in mind, I still got utterly frustrated with Riven.... I'm guessing that somehow translated into your interpretation that I like mediocre games? I love it when someone tells me how "people who love games" do it... Hardcore be you.

[Melanie68]

Play what you like. Everyone has different tastes. It's probably best to start off easy when someone is new to adventure gaming. It helps you get used to interfaces and types of puzzles so when you play more challenging games, you don't get as frustrated.

People are so divided over the Myst series. Many people love it and others can't get into it and others hate it. If you can't get into it, you're not the only one.

[rocketpop]

My fiancee absolutely loved Indigo Prophecy and Still Life. She also really liked Fatal Frame: Crimson Butterfly--which isn't an adventure (But the fact that she likes ANY game is always a surprise).

[Cathy1]

Have you carried on the game with Syberia 2, to finish the story ?
Cathy

[LimpingFish]

Myst is NOT a game. It's a form of abuse.

[badmojo]

Syberia 1 and 2 are a couple of my favorite modern adventures. The puzzles are fairly simple, but the storyline and character development are awesome.

Also, if you can.. try to track down a copy of Sanitarium. One of my alltime favorites.

[scribeswindow]

Personally I can't stand first person games. I love third person games though. I'm wondering if your wife could be the same if she's really enjoying Syberia? I hate just wondering around boring interfaces, I look forward to coming across characters so I can talk to them.

Originally Posted by shadow9d9

I posted this in another forum but I figured I'd get your advice as well.

Quick background: I have played Grim Fandango, Curse of Monkey Island, Zork Nemesis, Zork grand inquisitor, day of the tentacle, sam and max, monkey island 1-2, and part of riven. I just recently revived my interest in adventure games...

Relevant to this post: I absolutely loved Zork Nemesis because of its atmosphere, story, and extremely logical and integrated puzzles. Zork grand inquisitor was average at best, and some of the puzzle solutions were a little too oddball(not logical) for me(which is to expect of non Nemesis Zorks from what I hear). I did not like Riven because I found it overwhelming, with no direction , and even though I thought I took good notes(which I didn't mind doing), I got to a point where I hit a brick wall and really had no idea which direction to go, what was solvable.. and I thought I had pretty much taken all the notes I could... It just didn't have the charisma of Nemesis, didn't give enough direction, which nemesis had, and had less ambience/story than Nemesis, and I had to give up... Knowing this--->

3 days ago I got my wife(mainly non gamer) into her first adventure game, Syberia... she seems to love it... For her next game, I'd like to introduce her to a first person adventure game, to get her to experience something new.

I have accumulated the following games:
3rd person:Syberia 1 and 2, Longest journey, Runaway, Still Life

1st person: Amerzone, Scratches,Barrow hill, and Dark fall..

Of the last 4 games(can't remember if still life is first person), which would be the most newbie friendly of these first person adventures in the terms of: reasonable and integrated puzzles, decent direction, not too overwhelming, etc... Meaning, more Zork Nemesis and less Riven... Feel free to add any other first person adventures that you think may fit this description even better(I hear amerzone is good, but too easy... and I don't want too easy either if possible-Nemesis was perfect for me and therefore what I am using to compare against).

If you recommend Amerzone as the solution, do you feel that it istoo similar in style to Syberia(same creator) to jump into next?

Any insights would be most helpful.