[Fop]

Actually, every NPC in Oblivion looks different

[stuboy]

Hmmm. This AI sounds good, but the cynic in me says that it will either be chock full of bugs, dead ends and unconvincing behaviour (Bethesda... Scchhtop! This game isn't ready yet!) or they will cripple it in order to make the game playable. It worrys me that if you give computer programs goals, they will stop at nothing unless it contradicts other goals... which means to get convincing behaviour you need to give them almost as many "goals" (and a goal hierachy...) similar to real people... and "goals" in real life are almost countless. For instance, in real life, the guards wouldn't have all left the town because one of the goals would be "make sure that at least one or two of your colleagues stays in town to keep the peace, whenever you leave town". But then you'd need other rules... "if the town is destroyed by a volcano, then make sure your colleagues don't wait around in town". You see how these contradictions become essentially bottomless.

[insane_cobra]

You need to keep in mind it's just a game and not everything has to be perfectly simulated. There's a limited number of things that can happen in the gameworld and all they have to do is make it relatively easy for people to suspend their disbelief. That's a lot, actually, but I believe Bethesda has the talent to pull it off.

[stuboy]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

You need to keep in mind it's just a game and not everything has to be perfectly simulated. There's a limited number of things that can happen in the gameworld and all they have to do is make it relatively easy for people to suspend their disbelief. That's a lot, actually, but I believe Bethesda has the talent to pull it off.

I agre totally; if a game becomes as real as real life, it's just no fun anymore. But I'm shocked at how graphics outpace AI so badly. Mind you, we as consumers made our bed by worshipping technically advanced graphics, so now we must sleep in it.

To be honest, not just the AI but even basic game behaviours in all games are shockingly bad; e.g. in stealth games where a guard finds a corpse, raises the alarm for two minutes, then goes back to patrolling around, COMPLETELY IGNORING his dead friend, leaving him slumped exactly where he found him; and this cycle can be repeated again and again with other kills. It sounds picky, but I don't want the AI to write novels. I just want enemies to ACTUALLY USE cover, and to switch between weapons intelligently. I want them to take the long route, and sneak up behind me. I want them to try and retreat and snipe from a distance. These are all nowhere near the complexity of actual human responses; but if in 20 years we can go from coloured blocks to near-photorealistic realtime worlds, can we at least have enemies who behave a little bit like soldiers?

[insane_cobra]

Sure, I also think AI in general is criminally underdeveloped. However, I think it should be much easier to program a good AI for stealth or action games where all NPCs' actions are focused on figthing the player character than coming up with convincing behaviour for NPCs in a world simulator such as Oblivion where every NPC could choose to do almost anything.

[avatar_58]

I'm getting really ansty for this game to be released. The previews and screenshots aren't helping!

Heres a massive shot:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/a...c/obliv31B.jpg

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

the king, the local barmaid and some drunk in the forest.

I don't remember that quest, what where they doing out there?

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

I don't remember that quest, what where they doing out there?

Anal fornication?

But seriously.....ask some anti-temple people about certain topics. They start advertising FOR the temple.....because the developers forgot to remove those conversation items.

Sorry to mention it again, but I liked Ultima VII's method. Each character has his/her own set of questions. That way each convo is unique and you don't get generic responses. Makes the story flesh out so much nicer.

[Fop]

Yeah, it's nice. Just very hard to do with a thousand NPCs.

[Hammerite]

i think i shalt pre-order off gameplay.co.uk tonite.

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Fop

Yeah, it's nice. Just very hard to do with a thousand NPCs.

I prefer a few dozen well thought out characters opposed to thousands of brain dead drones.

[GED X-42]

Another gorgeous (and huge) screenshot

http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/a...c/obliv32B.jpg

Anyone getting the special edition version of Oblivion?

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by GED X-42

Anyone getting the special edition version of Oblivion?

Of course.

[Hammerite]

Originally Posted by avatar_58

I prefer a few dozen well thought out characters opposed to thousands of brain dead drones.

you go and watch the radiant a.i. demonstration vid on the oblivion website and say that again.

[Fop]

The what now? DOWNLOADING

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

you go and watch the radiant a.i. demonstration vid on the oblivion website and say that again.

Brain dead conversation wise. Play morrowind to see what I mean. In morrowind everyone says the exact same thing save for a few minor comments that are important to the current quest. That shit bothered me and I barely talked to anyone unless a quest made me.

I'm hoping in oblivion they don't do that, because its pointless to ask a hermit who lives 30000 miles from town about rumours about old man cedric of balmora. How the hell should he know? Or better yet....ask a person who barely speaks english about the goddess Almelexia and watch as he gains the ability to tell you off in perfect grammar.

Then go play a game like ultima VII (or most other rpgs) and see how each character says something completely different. Each person has a personality rather than a stiff wooden "YES HE IS OVER THERE" type of attitude that morrowind gave off.

So far according to their videos this isn't the case, but we'll see.

[Hammerite]

oh yeah, morrowind definately has that problem but i thought you were on about oblivion.

[avatar_58]

Originally Posted by Hammerite

oh yeah, morrowind definately has that problem but i thought you were on about oblivion.

I can't comment on oblivion yet. If they manage to make interesting characters + radiant AI then this game could end up being THE best rpg ever developed. However I have doubts.

Although if any game is going to take the crown away from U7 to me its probably going to be this game.

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by GED X-42

Another gorgeous (and huge) screenshot

http://www.elderscrolls.com/images/art/ob_pc/obliv32B.jpg

Anyone getting the special edition version of Oblivion?

I just preordered the Colectors edition a couple of days ago
was suprised to find out that its not going to be any more than £35, they said if it changed it would only be cheaper. but either way £35 is pretty cheap of a collectors edition over here

[GED X-42]

I just gave in and pre-ordered it myself. (I just can't resist that septim)

Got it off Play.com where its going for £30!!!

http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=s...C&title=904458