[Maquisard]

I voted Marvel. I mostly got into them because of all the Ultimate series I'm reading. It's a good way to catch up with the universe. Though DC has some cool stuff coming out of Vertigo. They're a good Indie brand, but I think a lot of their mainstream superhero stuff sucks.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by omloflump

Sorry, I was thinking of Wildstorm, hence that line about Alan Moore unintentionally working for DC again.

Alan Moore has (again) cut all ties to DC (over Warner's deceptive claims that he supported the V for Vendetta movie), and future ABC installments will now be published by Top Shelf/Knockabout.

Wildstorm did contribute some good stuff to DC's portfolio. In addition to the Moore titles, there's Ed Brubaker's Sleeper. Is Warren Ellis's Planetary still coming out?

[mag]

For some cool non-superhero stuff from DC, Will Eisner is pretty good.

mag

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Wildstorm did contribute some good stuff to DC's portfolio. In addition to the Moore titles, there's Ed Brubaker's Sleeper. Is Warren Ellis's Planetary still coming out?

Occasionally

Yeah, WS in not bad at all, there are also Automatic Kafka, Ex Machina, Global Frequency, Zero Girl...

What about Image? Maybe I just didn't see it, but I don't think anyone mentioned it yet. Which is a bit weird.

Well, this thread has swayed me. I suppose DC has the historical factor on its side, but I have to say, I've been re-reading some Marvel, and they do average out to be supirior tales. However, there is one thing that Marvel can never compete with DC with. And that is the greatest villain of all-time. You know who it is.

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

owns

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by mag

For some cool non-superhero stuff from DC, Will Eisner is pretty good.

Well, The Spirit is pretty much a superhero. Eisner is absolutely a genius, whether doing the Spirit or his later graphic novels. He belongs to the highest pantheon of comic creators along with Hergé, Carl Barks, Hugo Pratt, André Franquin, Alan Moore, Bill Watterson, and Neil Gaiman.

Originally Posted by [toj.cc]Phantom

owns

Don't kid yourself.

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

Don't kid yourself.

Okay fine.

[mag]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

However, there is one thing that Marvel can never compete with DC with. And that is the greatest villain of all-time. You know who it is.

I dunno. This guy is pretty damn cool:



Although, Batman does have an awesome list of villains. The Joker is probably the best just because he's one of the few villains who actually seems to be able to hurt the hero on a personal level.

Originally Posted by Snarky

Well, The Spirit is pretty much a superhero.

I was thinking of his other works, like Invisible People. I've actually never read The Spirit, but I do like his other stuff that I've read.

mag

Originally Posted by [toj.cc]Phantom

Okay fine.

What has Zsasz ever done besides kill a few people?

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

Originally Posted by mag

I dunno. This guy is pretty damn cool:

I like Carange more then Venom, however Venome is pretty cool.




(btw I do like the Joker not as much as Mr. Zsasz and Scarecrow a little more.)

Originally Posted by SamNMax

What has Zsasz ever done besides kill a few people?

More then a few. More like hundreds.

[mag]

Uh, people? We're also forgetting someone very important.



mag

[[toj.cc]Phantom]

Originally Posted by mag

Uh, people? We're also forgetting someone very important.



mag

poo

He's good, alright. But he's too serious. And besides, did he ever become ambassador of Iran? I think not.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Well, The Spirit is pretty much a superhero. Eisner is absolutely a genius, whether doing the Spirit or his later graphic novels. He belongs to the highest pantheon of comic creators along with Hergé, Carl Barks, Hugo Pratt, André Franquin, Alan Moore, Bill Watterson, and Neil Gaiman.

Whoa, no Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez? Art Spiegelman? Osamu Tezuka? Pffffft

And speaking of villains, you can't beat these guys

[bush_monkey]

If you're gonna start mentioning European creators, then I'm just gonna have to join in:

Who needs super-heroes, when you can have great comics like:
*Soda (a cop in NY who pretends to his mum that he's a priest),
*Thorgal (an alien taken in by vikings. Full of norse mythology and sc-fi),
*XIII ( About a man who has lost his memory and may or may have not assassinated the president of the United States),
*Broussaille (very touching, moving and dream-like stories),
*Luka (a very realistic take on cop drama),
*Theodore Poussin (about a European stuck in Asia in the 20s constantly plagued by a man who may/ may not be his conscience or his fate incarnate who does everything in his power to stop him from getting home),
*Quete de l'oiseau du temps / Quest for the time bird (A gritty, sensual, violent take on Tolkien),
*Les Tuniques Bleues / Blue Uniforms (A hilarious take on the American civil war. War should never be this funny. Points out the stupidities of war with refreshing honesty),
*Silence (an amazing graphic novel, should be considered up there with the classic novels)
*Philemon (Imagine an absurd world told to you so straight, you begin to see the logic. the basic premise is about a cast-away stuck on the island of the letter A of "Atlantic Ocean" as written on the globe)
*Jojo (very funny but very real look on life as seen from an innocent kid's point of view)
*Titeuf (Unlike Jojo, about kids who are rude, naughty and who think they know everything but get the wrong end of the stick with absolutely hilarious consequences. And no, before you ask, it is nothing like that terrible morning cartoon show they've made of it)
*Jeremiah (Nothing like the TV show but still about the same premise of post-apocalyptic world and how people cope)
*Les passagers du vent / passengers of the wind (a gritty, realistic, violent and sexual look at ships in the ocean in the 1700s)
*Kid paddle (a kids who plays video games, much better than Penny arcade and the likes)
*Rubriques-a-brac (pure random genius. Just imagine the fast show or harry enfield and chums, only in comic form)
*Jerome K. Jerome Bloche (An amateur detective fan of Bogart. very funny yet realistic with very well written intrigues)
*Sur la route de Selma / On the road to selma (a look at racism in America)

And without forgetting the classics; Tintin, Asterix, Lucky Luke, boule et bill, Gil Jourdan, gaston, Spirou.

And that's only a random selection as I'm looking through my bookshelf. Now, I know there are non super-hero comics in the US (and yes I read most of them) but it is depressing to think that the genre is dominating when you can do so much with the medium.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Whoa, no Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez? Art Spiegelman? Osamu Tezuka? Pffffft

I never felt up to tackling the Hernandez oeuvre. There's just so much of it. Spiegelman I respect, but I wouldn't place him on the level of Eisner, Barks, Pratt et al. Once we start extending the list with names like Pekar, Goscinny, Bendis, Giraud, Sacco, Bilal, Schuiten, Breathed etc. he's definitely included. As for Tezuka, I thought of including him. However, I've never read his work (don't really read any manga), so I thought it would be disingenuous to do so.

Whatever names you include or exclude on the list, the point is that there's a whole lot more to comics than the superheroes from Marvel and DC, including some of the finest work that has been achieved in the medium.

I tend to think of people who read only superhero comics a bit like I think of people who read only science fiction novels. Nothing wrong with it, but jeez, broaden your horizons! You're missing out on so much excellent stuff!

[After a brisk nap]

Interesting list, bush monkey. Do you know how much has been translated to English (or to any Scandinavian language)?

From your list, I've read Soda, Thorgal, XIII, The Bluecoats, Titeuf, Jeremiah, and Les passagers du vent. The ones I think highest of are probably the last two. Passengers of the Wind, particularly, is a very readable story.

This reminds me, the best (relatively) recent European comic I've read is Julien Boisvert, by Plessix and Dieter. A realistic and intimate, non-heroic portrayal of a young adventurer travelling the world in the early 60s. An adult Tintin with actual personality. The first two books (Nêkibo and Grisnoir) were published in English.

[artwking4]

Originally Posted by mag

See, I just don't get why people say stuff like this. It's not supposed to be realistic. It's called fantasy.

mag

Of course it is, and it's fine for other people. But, personally, I just can't get into the superhero thing, and how they're trying to save the world, uphold justice, protect the innocent and all, but they're wearing tights. It's not my kind of fantasy, at least. On the other hand, I'm not sure what I'd expect out of a realistic looking superhero. Except for lots of guns and grenades, I guess.