Actually, I owe you an apology. The thread title was indeed very misleading. I think the mods went a bit over the top with that choice of words and, if I were you, I would ask them to change the title as it makes you look like a fool trying to start a war.

That said, I still think that you're being overly harsh and should step back a bit in some of your statements. You're treating the hard work of many people very unfairly.

What would count as progress? And why does a conversation have to go anywehre?

You understanding what you're talking about.


Conversation has to go ''anywehre'' to be anything. Pointless conversations are pointless unless they are fun, this is not fun, this is me responding to someone who doesnt know much about fan game development other than what is blatently obvious.

*Sigh*. This is an Internet forum. We're discussing a seemingly controversial topic and judging by the number of replies, it's going places. And who are you to decide whether a conversation is (and should be) going anywhere? And who are you to decide the extent to which I know about fan game development? And why are you replying if you’re finding it a joyless experience?

My word is not absolute. I'm just some loser on an Internet forum.

In defense of the mods, nobody put words into AudioSolder's mouth. He made a post in the KQ9 thread that began "Fan games are shit. Full stop." We had a request to split that that post and the subsequent responses into a new thread because they were not on the subject of the original thread (KQ9 being resumed), which we did. The moderator who did it took AudioSoldier's first sentence, inserted a * in place of the i, and used it as the title.

I personally don't care what the thread is called, and it's been changed. But no one provoked the original poster into making the statement or edited anything that he said. I just want to make sure that's clear for people who may not have been following this thread from the beginning.

Sure fov, I understand that. But AudioSoldier's fateful post sounded much worse than it was as a first post. The in-your-face title didn't help either... I personally had no idea about that other thread.

Anyway, this thread has sadly become a waste of time. I just hope its (unwilling) author will reconsider his position.

I'm off to drink a Margarita!

You better be planning to share. :D

And work on Scratches, I hope. Which reminds me, I have a preview to type...

Waste of time? But the fun's only just started!

Seriously. I'd REALLY love to see the look on AudioSoldier's face upon being faced with RL&BAT. He may think that amateur adventure games suck, but truly, no one has ever played RL&BAT without finding it to be pure and utter genius.

The download link at the site I linked to didn't work, unfortunately; it can be found here.

Apart from the reviewer from this very site, sadly :crazy:.

I happen to agree: it's genius. In a totally-deranged kind of way :D.

The anticipation is killing me :D

I'll make a deal with you - I'll keep working after I read your preview!

[clichéd manic laughter goes here]

I do hope so. But that's all I'm saying for now ;).

Your claim that the fan games you've played are shit is your opinion, and I really don't think anyone cares one way or the other. People like what they like - big whoop. :Z

Your assertion ever since that ALL fan games are shit, and in fact MUST be shit for reasons X, Y, and Z is so full of erroneous assumptions that you are rightly being "lambasted" for THAT, not your personal view of the games you've played. If you understood that distinction, this thread might in fact actually have a point.

But since you consider yourself misunderstood and abused, I'll remind you:

Unfortunately, you had only one relevant point, and proceeded to bury it under a mound of nonsense.

Okay, I skimmed over the topic and I'm just putting in my two cents, being a member of the "amateur adventure scene".

I did the music and a lot of character graphics/animation on Two of a Kind (Which I've seen hailed in this thread numerous times, so thanks to everyone for that!). Though we initially did the game for a competition on the AGS Forums (Wihch meant we did the bulk of the game within a month), we worked on it for months after to try and polish it up.

Of course, we're not professionals. The game may not look as good as commercial games, it may not sounds as good, but there's one underlying factor: IT IS FREE.

It was done for the love of the adventure game genre, by fans for fans. If someone doesn't like it, then they should not play it. Now personally, I love amateur made adventures, in fact, I've only bought four or five commercial adventures in the past couple years, whereas I've played dozens of free ones. Only a small handfull were great games, but I certainly don't condemn all amateur adventures because the majority of them are bad.

If someone wants amateur adventures to be more professional, then send me a large check. I'll go out and hire an orchestra to record the score I'm writing right now for "Three of a Kind" (Oops, did I let that slip?). Otherwise, people should stop complaining.

In response to the claim that all amateur games are bad, I just wanted to mention the game the white chamber. It's by far the best underground game I've played and is definitely worth the free download.

the white chamber: http://www.studiotrophis.com/wc.php

On an unrelated note, in response to the posts about Scratches, I just had to express my excitement for the game. It's up there with Dreamfall as my most hyped upcoming games. :)

What I find interesting is that he said "Steve Ince's game isn't a shitty fan game. He's having it published!"

So, basically, you're saying if the game's being published it's NOT a shitty game, and if it's not published it IS a shitty game.

Have you played Steve Ince's new game? What if it turns out not to be that good, heaven forbid? Will the fact that it's been published have any bearing on its quality?

What about games that were released as amatuer games, but publishers picked them up and they're now published? Were they shitty before but now magically aren't?

I've followed this topic from the begining and he's not saying that having a game published makes it better quality-wise.

I'm saying it's good enough to be published, and I hope he succeeds in pushing forward a publishing deal.

Edit: I'm downloading "The box who ate time".

Edit 2: Also, I'd just like to reiterate why I made my original post, since, admittedly it has been rather buried in some of my more questionable comments.

People were up-in-arms at the cancellation of KQ9. I can understand their reasoning: The game had been in development for quite some time, and Vivendi's sudden and seemingly inappropriate shut-down of the production was frowned upon by many.

I'm not going to comment on the company's decisions, but I felt compelled to make the point that I didn't believe KQ9 would be worth the hype, or the petitions created to have its production resumed. Why? Because I believed it was being created by a team of amateurs. Since I've been subsequently corrected -- apparently, members from professional companies are lending their talent -- I'll perhaps change my words slightly: I HAD no reason to anticipate KQ9 and I still don't think it will be as good as the anticipation warrants. Yes, there are some talented people working on it, but I have my doubts.

Also, I never singled out any fan-games as being "shit" (at least, I don't recall doing as such). I wasn't intending to hurt people's feelings. It's my blunt point-of-view that's been at fault.

Edit 3: The Box Who Ate Time doesn't work.

This thread shows nicely why I'm working on amateur adventure games. As long as there are people who play and enjoy our games (and judging by the feedback we got from 5ma fans there are lots of them), there's no problem with their existence, even though their production values may not match commercial games.
Besides, creating games is fun and a challenging and creative hobby. Note the word *hobby*.

I would (and I did, actually, in a way). I wouldn't want game development to become yet another boring job with deadlines and management which tells you what to do and how to cripple your design. Amateur development gives me a freedom to do what I want and when I want.