"May the Force be with Trep" (Jedi Knight II)
 

http://www.avault.com/reviews/images/jkout7a.jpg http://www.game-revolution.com/games...i_outcast6.jpg

Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast

Highly recommended. I played the demo (which is a level not in the full game) to death like a sex starved nympho in a cashmere lined room full of Christian Bale clones, and then I finally got the full game. One of the first things you notice is the obscenely vast sense of scale of this gameworld, interesting for its tension between the dizzyingly colossal architecture and the comparably tiny brilliant minds who built them and populate them. Acrophobes be warned. I cranked up all the graphics settings (except for volumetric shadows, which slowed down the framerates considerably but were atmospherically useless anyway), and Kyle's universe came into sharp focus with sheer sceen-lickable precision.

And all that before I finally got my lightsaber. Those of you who've played this otherwise underappreciated spectacle, you know what I mean. The lightsaber is as close as you'll get to a high tech sex toy surrogate. I mean, that mofo is up there with Alice's darkly twisted toy arsenal. And in combination with your increasing force powers, well....let's just say that it's practically sinful. Gameplaywise, there are near Half-Life moments where I would enter a room and all hell would break loose.

** I originally posted this at Idle Forums but wanted to share it with the AG whores, so all you IT members: Shaddup!

You originally posted this on the Idle Thumbs forum

-- IT whore :shifty: :shifty:

The correct acronym is Idle-T, foo'.

http://forums.idlethumbs.net/images/smilies/idle-t.gif

I played through the demo until I lost count of how many times before I finally got the game. It is indeed impressive, but after you get the saber the game becomes a lot easier. After I got it, the only times I used another weapon were when I a) went up against an AT-ST, or b) when I had to use the Disruptor Rifle to pick someone off from a distance. Other than that, the saber's the way to go.

By the way, Jedi Academy is a fun diversion too, with some memorable moments. There are more vehicles to ride besides the AT-ST, like a swoop bike and a tauntaun, which is more fun than it sounds. (Although the swoop bike gives me horrible flashbacks of the swoop level in Shadows of the Empire.) The best part is later in the game when you get a lightstaff or dual sabers. I went the dual-saber route since I've thought that two lightsabers were the coolest thing ever since I fought Boc in Jedi Knight. ("You're an angry one, aren't you?")

And personally, I think that the final battle (either one, light side or dark side,) is a lot better than the final battle in Jedi Outcast. Desann used the slow, strong, "Vader Style," whereas the final opponent in Jedi Academy, (either one,) uses Darth Maul-style attacks.

Spoiler:

Since this is spoiler territory, I'm going to say that Kyle uses wrestling holds on you if you get too close, which is awesome. And Tavion has a flaming sword, which rocks. Not a lightsaber, a physical sword which is on fire. Tavion's a LOT harder, too.

I'm getting Jedi Academy once I find enough more change under the couch. :)

I own Jedi Outcast on my Gamecube since earlier this year (and lo; the game even learned me how to do fps with a gamepad!), and I loved it too. I didn't really feel it was spectacular, but I had a serious good time with it. I was particularly surprised at how well you could fight with your lightsabre, swinging it around, throwing it, and how well the force powers were integrated in the fighting. I recall that in Jedi Knight, the lightsabre was a fun weapon, but fairly useless in a lot of situations. Here it really IS the game.

I did kind of miss the hint of non-linearity that was choosing which side you were on, but in the end it didn't matter. Oh, and I should mention that my version of the game was harder than yours. You see, I bought the game in France for a ridiculous low price, and the clerk assured me there'd be an english talkie on it. Nuh-uh. My French is adequate though, and the upside is that I now know how to speak "jedi" in French. Que la Force soit avec toi, Kyle.

The lightsaber in Jedi Knight holds my personal award as the single most disappointing weapon in game history. Not because it was bad; it was fun to use. But because it could have, and SHOULD have been so much more. Jedi Outcast handles it perfectly by making it so powerful. You're a freaking JEDI! You shouldn't HAVE to use any other weapons! No self-respecting Jedi carries a blaster!

Great, now I can finish my ramble about what I would wanna see in Jedi Knight 3.

First of all, the objects you can interact with using force push/pull or grasp wouldn't be prescripted, or ruled by whether the object is human or not. The physics engine would calculate the mass of the object, your Jedi's power, and thus see whether you can push it, pull it, or even raise it up and fling it around. I also feel these basic functions shouldn't be limited to "push forward/pull toward" but that there should be an innovative, mouse controled way of wielding the force in many directions. Kinda like what was done with the grasp function at the 3rd level of strenght in JK2, but applied to more of the force powers. I see visions of flinging objects at opposing Jedi, like Vader did at Luke. Also, traps that the designers left lying around for you, that you can manipulate to your advantage, a la Half Life 2 (if you've seen the trailers)

Second, I want to see the vehicle segments expanded to include space dog-fighting. Remember when Vader said "the force is strong with this one"? How does that look when you are the one wielding it? Imagine applying all the powers you have to space combat: force speed for better control of the fighter and avoiding incoming fire, force push for diverting incoming projectiles, mind control for confusing the pursuers, or even having one of them fight on your side. This sounds fun enough, that it could even work as a stand-alone game, where you not only upgrade your ship, but learn new powers as you progress. "Star Wars: Jedi Starfighter", anyone? Maybe, maybe not. :shifty:

Those are my prime wishes for the next gen Jedi game. What do you guys think? What would you wanna see?

Mares, you make great points on what should go on another Jedi Knight game should there be one; perhaps you should forward those ideas to the proper groups....

For multiplayer, I found Jedi Academy to be far more entertaining due to the more fluid movements and added ones at that, particularly when wielding dual sabers, my preferred choice of weapon over the staff saber. Unfortunately the story does not hold throughout the game unlike Outcast as it is episodic in nature but nevertheless, it still is a fun game to play (just re-played it a couple of weeks ago).

For those interested, there are a number of mods out there for both Outcast and Academy:

http://www.lucasfiles.com/index.php?...09b9524bf26053

I personally use the realistic saber mod which are based on the sabers as represented in the movies. I find the original saber found in both games to be far too thin for my taste.

I felt a bit let down by the lightsaber in both outcast and academy. When academy was being developed I was hoping in vain that they'd have a 'master' level of saber control on par with that available in die by the sword, or at least the inclusion of combos lifted from soul calibur 2 or the like.

They addressed some of the control issues in academy but there really wasn't enough combo's, especially ones that mesh with your choice of jedi powers. I actually found the saber choices in Academy redundant... if you want to look cool then sure, pick up the double bladed saber or dual sabers but from a game balance perspective you might as well bend over and ask to be spanked.

On anything higher than normal difficulty the lack of combos and weakened damage both styles bring with them make the game extremely difficult. Its a far easier game to finish on 'Jedi Master' difficulty when you stick with a single light saber and use the particular stances (light, medium, heavy) and their corresponding force combinations against appropriate enemies (ie: force stab, leap attack, greater cleave).

I agree 100% the game needs a kick in the ass in getting some clever force powers happening, the tired use of push/pull puzzles are frustrating, KOTOR is equally guilty of a lack of imagination with force related puzzles. I find the 'mana' system annoying too, especially when the bad guys are given near unlimited pools to draw from and you're stuck there swearing at the screen waiting for the little blue bar to fill up again...

I picked dual lightsabers, you're right, so I'd look cool, but sometimes I would holster one of them, to take advantage of the single saber fight stances. There were certain advantages, however, to the various lightsaber choices. My brother beat the game with the lightstaff, and he said that the ability to kick the opponents was an immense advantage. With dual sabers, you could throw one, and fight with the other. Hmm...I don't think this actually helped much in any situation. Generally though, it just looked cool. :D

What kinda character race/gender/clothing/saber color & style did you guys pick playing Academy? I remember starting the game out many times, trying out numerous combos, until I was absolutely satisfied w/ the look of my Jedi. I considered detail as minute as how a certain saber color reflected off her skin. :P At one point, having played through like a quarter of the game, I decided I wasn't entirely satisfied w/ my character's look, and restarted it once again, to pick my final look. Funny how that custimization is so important to some people, eh? I'd miss that ability, if it were to be absent in the next Jedi Knight game. Unless of course the main character and his story fascinated me enough to not care.

Anyway, my character was a Twylek babe in a borg-like black outfit (the top had an armored arm). I even had her skin be a light greenish color to her skin, to complete the borg look. Her head & tendrils had a black leather belt wrapped around them (the best I can describe it). Also, I decided upon purple light saber color, because it was in nice contrast to her skin tone. It actually kinda complemented her complexion. :D If you still have the game, try generating her, and say if she isn't a badass looking jedi! :P Her face has that innocent youth look, but is replete with a serious dose of punk-rock rebellion. Standing next to Luke in their respective black costumes, she seemed like a worthy succesor to the greatest jedi of them all! :) Man, I'm such a dork. :eek:

Although I did find that lightsabres battles were a bit willy-nilly sometimes in Jedi Outcast. At times you'd just slice through without taking any damage (when battling other sabre-wielding people), and sometimes you'd die time after time... although the level of control was extented and fine, there just seemed to be a lack of strategy during the lightsabrebattles.

Jedi Knight 2 spoiler

Spoiler:

And during the fight with the imperial general Galak Fyar, the lightsabre was effectively useless. I ended up getting so mad at him that I'd just grabbed my rocketlauncher, shot at him until his shield was down and them blasted him to hell. And seeing that the rocketlauncher only packs 10 rockets, that was a surprisingly easy way to defeat him. The battle with Desann proved to be even easier though, just hacking with your sabre.

Unfortunately it didn't work that way, as soon as you pick dual sabers or staff saber, while you can holster one the single style you get is a castrated version of medium stance, none of the force power combo's work (you can't leap attack for example), and you can't change stances (heavy/medium/light) anymore, even though you previously learnt them.

If you stick with single saber you not only look good while running (the other stances force your animation to look constipated :D), but you can use force pull and light stance to gut your opponents, medium and force jump to leap over bad guys while chopping at their head, and heavy + force jump from a long distance to cleave bad guys in two. Plus heavy stance always damages on hit even if they're blocking.

The only time I ever threw my lightsaber was while I had them hanging in the air from force grip, since they're holding their throat they can't block the saber.

I loved the customisation in Academy, I felt there should be more :) I ended up using the console to change player model tops so I could always use the Hoth outfit white jacket ala Princess Leia.

You'd lack strategy only if you ignore studying all the moves and combos. The printed manual outlines them. It's fairly intricate in JKII (but more so in JA), and if you invest more time and patience I think you really can develop a tangible advantage over your opponents. This was my particular weakness in head-to-head saber fights, I should have trained more. Think about it, the battles really are quite complex and you can replay each one using different strategies. I preferred using the fast style (blue) overall (once I acquired it, of course).

I found that using the environment in combination with my force powers was highly effective. I used my quick wits mixed with saber skills and environmental awareness. My main tactics were to lure opponents to steep drops or trip mine traps I've set, having evil jedis follow me to areas more advantageous for me, and ducking in tight places to heal and recharge during fights. Customizing your strategies to gain an edge over different jedis is crucial. I discovered that Reborns can be more easily defeated using diagonal slashes, forward lunges, and crouching slashes in combination with force speed and high jumps. The 'ninja' jedis (as I call them, the ones with the green crystals) are really annoying because of their invisibility and quickness, so I use the fast saber style (blue) with strafing and horizontal swipe attacks in combination with [300% to 400%] force speed. They are impossible to get with direct attacks so you have use the 'side door' method.

For a large amount of storm troopers it pays to use the mind trick. At skill level 2 of this, 'distract' 2 or 3 of them first and attack the others, then go back and kill the ones you mind tricked. At level 3 of the skill, simply use your 'charms' to befriend 1 or 2 of them and let them kill all the others for you, then kill them.

Fyyar was such a bitch (but he's really good looking, heh heh, too bad he's evil :P ).

Spoiler:

I died too many times. Finally I figured it out - cut down his defensive shield (with your strongest guns) and while he's vulnerable slash him repeatedly with your saber, repeat as necessary, but be very careful and stay behind him while you slash away or he'll kill you with a single blow. Use force speed to maneuver around his charges and use the pillars to your defensive advantage. Killing Desann was cakewalk, I can't believe how anticlimactic that was. I just used fast attack and force speed and slashed him to death, he was using strong attack. What a moron.

I still uphold my belief that Stormtroopers are the best cannon fodder ever. I relished in the experience of killing them in Dark Forces, and the fun hasn't died away since then. It's still grueling fun in Jedi Outcast (and probable Academy as well).

Spoiler:

Oh by the way, I just remembered that I laughed out hard at the TERRIBLE ending of this game XD Damn what anti-climactic cheesiness!

I also heard that using the lightstaff was worth it just for the kicking, especially because there are so many loooong drops in Jedi Academy. The burial ground level on Chandrila is a perfect example. I'd keep using force push to try to push the dark jedi off of the catwalks, but they block about 90% of the time. With kick, it becomes a ton easier. You just have to get close, and WHAM! Weeeeeeeeeeeee....

As far as choice for my character went, I ended up going with the human male, just because the male voice sounded incredibly stupid with anyone besides a human. (I later downloaded voicepacks for the Kel Dor and Rodian, which work well.) I chose a leather-intensive red outfit since I wanted to play a "tortured-jedi" character. (e.g. Kyp Durron, one who often treads the line and slips into the dark side, but never falls completely.) To complement that, I had two sabers, one blue with a sleek silver handle, and one orange, with a very unusual and cool handle that I downloaded: it was black, with a small reptilian skull mounted around the blade projector, and a long curved blade made out of a bony claw at the other end. Although I started off with a purple saber.

Oooooh, CR, your character sounds damn sexy. Can I, um.....have his phone number? I love dangerous tortured Jedi.

The Chandrila level was in the demo. Have you tried this strategy: lure the bad Jedi and force jump across any chasm; when they force jump to follow you immediately use force push on them when they're in mid air and send them plunging to hell. Works every time. Wit over brauns, baby. Also, you can force jump and land on top of them to knock them down and while they're struggling to get up immediately use force speed and start slashing away.

Wall walking and jumping are fun to do as well. One more thing: remember that you can roll out of harm's way whenever they knock you down - simply hit either left or right strafe key when you're still on the ground.

I figured out the push-while-they're jumping bit pretty quickly. I would jump up onto a ledge, then wait for them to jump up to me. But kicking is a lot easier. Or you could kick them down, THEN push them over while they're getting up.

It's even possible to waste them with your guns. If you have more than enough ammo, shoot them mercilessly across the chasms with your Heavy Repeater. The rate of fire is so insanely high that they can't possible saber block every single shot. If not kill them, you can at least weaken them to the point that you can just jump across and finish them off.

Intrepid, I played the demo for Jedi Academy tonight, and I didn't like it too much. I had a frustrating time with it because I kept dying a lot. But, I do love the fact that you can choose how you want your character to look, and that you can choose the lightsaber (or lightsabers) you want for your main weapon. I ended up using the double-bladed saber that Darth Maul used in Episode I. It felt very smooth and powerful to use.

I wanted to like the demo, but the main beef I had with it was that the dark Jedi were too tough in this demo. They kept using the Force Drain and Force Choke moves on me.

One more thing: Is Knights of the Old Republic as good as everyone says it is?.

You've got to be joking. Right? You may not have entered the game with the right frame of mind. Were you playing it properly, and did you study all the combat moves? You might want to re-map your keys to optimize access to your force powers, as well as develop particular strategies. Remember that there are sudden moments where your quick reflexes are needed (bridges blowing up, snipers, etc.), and stay fully aware of your environments. You don't always have to run into a fight, it's possible to take evil Jedi out one at a time, and even use the environment to your advantage.

In the menu screen take advantage of the force powers upgrade system and maybe focus on your favourites. For your weapons, choose accordingly. For example, long range guns for huge environments (disruptor, blaster, etc. for the Chandrila levels) and short to medium range guns for smaller places (fletchette, etc.). The gameplay can be really fun and intricate, you just have to explore the nuances and tailor them to you. Play around with the various moves of each style of light saber until you feel comfortable with them. Also, remember that you can do special stunts like walk walking and jumping. The light saber combat alone is extremely intricate, take some time with it.

Remember that certain force powers can be countered with other powers. I know that force grip and lightning can be dispelled with force push.

See my posts on why this is so, or simply replace the bold text with "I kept bending over backwards asking the dark Jedi to ride me like a pony"

The dark jedi use force powers in clever combinations throughout Academy and they only get cheesier and more powerful as you go. In groups they work together. The dark temple mission in the demo is actually quite late in the game and is a very difficult one even with a lot of practice (vs 3 and vs 2 reborn battles).

With your force 'pool' always so low (and the enemies practically unlimited), its not practical to use energy and force protections all the time while hacking away at them with the cool looking dual or double sabers (your force wont regenerate while the protection is up). Its far more practical to have these powers bound to a key and switch them on/off on the fly when needed, keep your distance and use your jedi powers to pick them off one at a time... either throw them over a cliff edge (of which there are entirely too many in the game) or gut/cleave them using the force abilities that gel with your saber stance (there are more with single saber which is why I laud it).

Academy is no saber monkey's game which was a total let down, short of maximising 'force rage' which protects you from everything and costs little at 3rd rank there's no style/option to finesse the heck out of the bad guys with 'mad saber skills' :( Its really force ability focused.

A lot of the later missions where total let downs, a bridge/cliff every bloody where and all you had to do was fake bad guys out with a little lightening, they ALWAYS jump in the air leaving themselves open to force push and zoom zoom off they go. After a whole string of this they set you up on a raised platform to fight a boss... who behaves exactly the same only there are 'invisible' barriers that prevent them going over the side (not you though!). Say cheese.

Visually its a nice game to run through and on easier difficulty settings, a lot of fun... not much of a challenge though if you fight cheese with cheese.

Yeah, but pushing dark jedi over cliffs never got old for me. Possibly the MOST entertaining way of disposing of a single enemy is gripping them, then doing a third-level force jump and dropping them at the height of your leap. You land just in time to see them hit the ground with a crunch.

It's true though, that the dark side path was a lot harder in general, although it compensated by having an easier final boss. It's probably on purpose that LA made the dark side path less entertaining, so that they'd lead more players towards the "right" storyline. I have to say it was a lot of fun in the Sith Temple level to run around with my tiny army of jedi knights and getting into royal-rumble-style saber battles.

And what was interesting to me was that the hardest enemies in the game for me weren't even jedi. They were the Dark Troo- I mean, ROCKET Troopers. Those guys were a pain in the ass when they were alone, never mind more than one of them.

By the way, for any who haven't tried it, I recommend binding Force Push and Force Pull to the mouse wheel, if you have one. The fluidity of the controls is incredible this way, and so immersive. Push the mouse wheel away, stormtroopers fly over the ledge. Pull it towards you, silly little rodian comes flying into your lightsaber. Ah... so satisfying.

To answer someone's question, yes Knights of the Old Republic is great. Could it have been better? Of course, what game couldn't. But it is still a quality game that I began playing through again immediately after beating it the first time.

True. Force Pull and Push were my two favourite Force powers. Pushing dark jedi off of bridges, or pulling stormtroopers right into the path of tripwire mines... It also felt strangely stisfying to get a dark jedi into a choke grip, carefully suspend him over the the edge of a cliff and then let him go to let gravity take over :devil:

I just bought it. My God, it's the most addictive game ever. I'm at work now, and the workday is DRAGGING on because I want to get home and play it. I'm trying to go for the same "tortured jedi" character that I did in Jedi Academy, but that's probably going to hurt me when I start getting force powers and they all cost a hell of a lot because I'm not dedicated to a specific side of the force.

As it is, my level 6 scoundrel is doing quite well. He's got a few level-ups waiting in the wings, but I'm saving those for when he becomes a jedi so he can get more powers that way.

Is he as sexy as your baby in Jedi Academy? :9

I enjoyed Jedi Outcast

It was a very different style of FPS, and I enjoyed the capabilities of the lightsabre. There's something satisfying about darting all over the place, hacking people with the sabre, and then doing backflips all over the place, like a supreme baaaaaaddd assssss!!

Kyle Katarn is a very dry, very hard edged protagonist, and is believable as a renegade jedi, and it also makes the experience all the more compelling, as you know, you wouldn't feel so bad if you broke the laws of the jedi code. ;). Not that any of us would do that, right?

Seriously, it is a very good game, and like Trep, I completed this not to long ago, and found it to be a pleasurable experience. Certainly worthwhile for anyone interested in this style of game, and even for those who are not.

Although...it's published by Lucasarts.

:s

I've already said it, but what did YOU think of the ending of Jedi Outcast? (in spoiler-brackets of course)

Spoiler:

The ending didn't particulary stand out to me, nor did it rank as a bad ending. It just simply...ended, if you know what I mean. It set the tone for a sequal, and I'd imagine they will produce a Jedi Knight III eventually. The whole relationship of Kyle and Jan Ors had been built up since the beginning, so you had to know it would reach a conclusion of romance between the two. It also worked, because, as I previously aluded, Kyle is a rogue Jedi. Though, the ending could also be looked at, as his rite of ascension, back into the realms of being a Jedi Knight. So, technically, love becomes an impossibility. *shrug*. It is difficult to perceive.

As for the final battle, once you knew what to do, it was ridiculously easy. Though, the continued pulling powers that were used against you became frustrating. I quite enjoyed the mind trickery in the last level, that was quite cool, and it made sure you had to save, otherwise, you'd be pretty steamed.

...and when Kyle got raunchy with that Stormtrooper...ooops, this is out of the spoiler tags now...sorry, I just like gave the game away...:S

Damn that Trep, his perverseness is rubbing off on me!! 8)

Somehow I doubt you'd think so. I chose the bald-headed guy with the Fu Manchu mustache and gave him this weird head thing so that he looks like Lobot. He's also wearing this armor which works really well for a scoundrel, but is extremely stupid-looking.

On the bright side, though, in five consecutive battles I haven't seen him get hit once. The guy's slipperier than an oil slick on Hoth.

And might I add that Mission is extremely hot? A twi'lek with freckles is very attractive. I control her a lot when running around just to look at her. :devil:

First off, LA announced as soon as JK2 came out that they will make Jedi Knight III. So that's something to look forward to.

Second of all, the whole backwards "Jedi can't love" attitude went out with the Old Republic. In the timeframe of Jedi Outcast, or a bit after, there are lots of Jedi with families. Thus leading to lots of little Jedilings.

Spoiler:

It's interesting how Jan has "died" twice now in the JK series.

Am I the only one who found the level design TERRIBLE? The game was brilliant, but it was far too easy to get lost. Which is a shame, really, because it means I've still only reached the cloud city all this time later.

I thought the level design could have been better, but in the opposite direction, because I found the levels very linear. I want to see Jedi Knight 3 be more like Deus Ex, where you can get by obstacles in a variety of ways, and how you did that would affect your force alignment. If you made it through the level relying on force persuasion and force stun to complete your objectives with a minimum of blood loss, you'd get a massive boost towards the light side. If you charged in lopping off heads and going out of your way to kill, dark side for you! (That doesn't mean that you couldn't still fight your way through if you were a light sider, it just means that you couldn't be gratuitous.)

CR, that's asking too much of JKII. As is, I feel it was suitable and satisfying for what it strived for, an action/adventure with some fun features. What you want is Jedi Knight II: The RPG. And isn't KOTOR already that?

It's asking too much of Jedi Knight 2, sure. But this is pure wishing on my part of Jedi Knight 3. And yeah, KOTOR is that, in a way, but there's a catch, and it's that KOTOR is a very flat game. By which I mean pretty much everything takes place in a 2-D plane. You can't sneak into a building by force jumping up on top of it and entering through an open window, for example. That's the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I just found out that Mission is supposed to be 14 years old. NO 14-YEAR-OLD LOOKS LIKE THAT! She's got... and she has....

I feel really, really dirty right now.

Indeed. That game has created thousands of paedophiles world-wide...