Dragon Age 2 Revealed
 

From the game's official website:


And here's the usual press talk:
I myself am a bit worried about the 'new combat mechanics'. I hope this does not mean thata they're abandoning real time with pause or that we can also play the game point and click on the PC?

Te forum at the bioware social site:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/category/141/index

According to this thread, we'll play as new guy or girl named hawke


http://social.bioware.com/forum/Drag...3052363-1.html
(source:
http://dragonage.bioware.com/ - and then news)

I, for one am a bit disappointed in this. I agree with DPB at the forums at rpgwatch. com that rpg games where you fully create
your character seems to be dead. Instead, we're left with a fixed (human?) character called Hawke...

The old dialgue tree-structure seems gone, too, the game will probably be full voiced over, even for Hawke (but that shouldn't bother us, we're used to that in adventure games...)

Oh, and for those of you near a news stand or a place that sells magazines there's a full article in the august issue of Game Informer about DA2

hahaha leave it to bioware to take whats good about their games and destroy it. If this is the case, I'm thinking there is absolutley nothing that would make me interested in this sequel. Lame.

Leave it to the internet to allow people to bash a game that's not even close to existing yet.

Owskie, have you even PLAYED Dragon Age 2 yet? Otherwise you risk being a troll.

I just hope and pray to the gaming gods that Bioware keep the isometric view and the tactical pause/action point & click combat intact. I would also like some connection between DA1 and 2, but seems like they are going for a new story and new characters.

I'm just afraid they go down the path of real time combat, consolization and "Mass Effectisation"... i mean i love Mass Effect but i would like for both games to keep a completely diferent feel and mechanics.

Lets wait and see.

Guess you haven't played Mass Effect 2. lol

Mass Effect was the only game I even remotley enjoyed from Bioware, unfortunatley I haven't played Mass Effect 2 due to a lack of time.

Anywho, I'm simply stating that the things that are said to be removed from dragon age 2 are the only things I enjoyed about the first game.

Lets look at what I said

"leave it to bioware to take whats good about their games and destroy it"

Situation at hand, theres talk about having removed character customization and the dialogue trees. There is a saying if its good, don't break it. Removing something that worked so well. Wether it ends up being a good move or not has yet to be seen. However, these things being the only things I enjoyed from the first game brings me into the second thing I said.

"it. If this is the case, I'm thinking there is absolutley nothing that would make me interested in this sequel."

Based on the information given to me, I have concluded how I feel about the game development and their decisions at the present time.

I in no way bashed the game itself.

I never even said there is nothing that interests me, I said I'm thinking that there will be nothing. I'm not a Psychic, but with my favorite elements of DAO removed, this is just my logical assumption as a majority of their games havent changed formula too much.

That's your opinion, naturally. So just don't buy the game when it comes out.

Me? I am absolutely thrilled that BioWare is exploring fresh ideas and experimenting with concepts while at the same time refining what they feel are the strongest points of their games.

really? I beg to differ:
It's not a logical assumption. So they're taking some elements out that you enjoyed. Maybe they're replacing them with some elements that you'll enjoy just as much. You have no idea, and no basis upon which to form an opinion.

For example, do you honestly think they're going to completely remove dialogue from the game, just because they're removing the current dialogue tree system?

Just head to bioware social forums to enjoy more of this. Bioware so far has confirmed (hope I haven't included a rumor in 1 of these),

1) The main character will be a human named Hawke.
2) it's 10 years after the Origins campaign.
3) It won't have multiplayer :(.
4) The main character will likely be voiceovered :)
5) The woman under the dragon in one of the two pictures they released is relevant to the story.
6) Origins story will be loosely relevant (they didn't specify in what way) but not directly connected.
7) Hawke is not Morrigan's child

These are posted by Bioware devs in some of the gazilion threads in DA2 forums, can't really dig the links one by one.

Some fans understood:

1) Bioware will destroy DA2 as an RPG.
2) Combat will be like Oblivion.
3) EA plans to destroy the RPG genre.
4) Bioware did this on purpose to destroy the "effort" (lol - it's a game) people put into Origins.

There is also a thread about how sexist it is to have a male and not a female under DA2's dragon on the DVD cover +the voiceovers will probably be for male characters. Another thread saying that Dragon Age will become Mass Effect (for whatever reasons they find this bad), another one on how Bioware keeps letting people down with its games, another thread on how the new (unannounced) combat system is going to destroy RPGs. etc etc.

DA2 forum should be renamed to "2010: the end of rpgs, discuss". I never thought so little information could cause such nerdrage :P. I have to admit tho, reading all that has been a quite enjoyable experience.

If people want the exact same experience as in BG saga, the game is there to play, you can import you characters, not voiceovered protagonists allow all races & classes to be used as a main character, etc etc. For one, I'm happy to see Bioware not repeating BG with improved graphics and instead doing really new stuff, making their own game world, trying different campaigns there, using their own combat system instead of D&D.

I really love the idea of the game spanning a decade. It worked well in Fable 2 and I think it'll work even better here. I've got faith in BioWare. The first Dragon Age was truly exceptional.

I think it is safe to assume that based on the titbits of information that have already become available, Bioware is turning the game around to fit the Mass Effect formula to a large extent. It may seem "unfair" to pass judgement on a game for which we know next to nothing regarding the core storyline and combat mechanics, but that's exactly what I am about to do. :D

Considering that ME2 was a tremendous critical and commercial success, I suppose that it shouldn't come as a surprise that Bioware would try to aim for a similar direction with their other big franchise. For better or worse, ME has become a point of refference for the industry and it seems only natural for its own creator to use it as a guideline as well (it seems that this game's title was far more prophetic than even Bioware would dare imagine). Personally, I feel that Dragon Age might benefit from the more cinematic approach and I'll leave it to Bioware to make combat immersive (if less tactical, as I reckon that me may not have direct control over our companions this time around - a la ME) and our semi-predetermined character a real treat.

Truth be told, I am more concerned over the storyline. Judging from the cover/promo pic and the "Rise to power" quote, I can't help but make Fable connections which is not an approach I would like for Dragon Age (or any RPG for that matter). I didn't care much for the way my Bhaalspawn was treated in the Throne of Bhaal expansion (BG2) and so far it seems that our guy/girl might be something similar set in DA universe. I would rather be significant but not omnipotent compared to the powers that be - I think The Witcher nailed this notion pretty well since Geralt was both an influential figure and a "hero of the hour" type but also being played into powerful people's schemes and massive conflicts that were more or less out of his control. Maybe when more information about the storyline pops up we will be able to have a more clear picture of what they have in mind for Hawke.

The other thing I am mildly concerned about is the "new visual style". I trust in Bioware's taste (and resources) to make the game look nice but this slightly over-the top concept art sketch on their website (the 1/2 with the mage woman) makes me a bit nervous. I just hope they don't pull a "Clone Wars" on us, the style of the first game fitted the world quite nicely for me. Nothing spectacular, but well-rounded and solid for a "grounded" fantasy world like the one of DA.

Anyway, I guess I just wanted to share my initial thoughts (and minor concerns) on the announced information. All things considered, I have faith that whatever the direction, Bioware will eventually deliver. I am just not sure if it will be what most of us ordered...

Like i said earlier i love Mass Effect, but what is the logic to take DA2 into that road. The point of DA:O was to return to the old style RPG's like Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect point is to mix RPG with a classic shooter. Each one has a different market so let's not mix them. Dragon Age is supposed to be deep, tactical, with lots of stats, inventory managment, point & click and a full fledge RPG, not a mix, thats why Bioware made DA:O in the first place, and what fans want.

However i'm just speculating, we know nothing about the game, i'm just stating my fears.

Believe it or not Dragon Age was a bigger comercial success than Mass Effect, so why change it to the same formula as Mass Effect?

DAO was great, but i did hate the downloadable content they tried to make you buy in it, so tacky. I would say looking at the possible changes that there are some positives & some questions still to be answerd. Anyway, nice to know there will be a DAO2, and one to watch out for in future.

BooB

Saying Lame, has nothing to do with the game itself, but what I already stated. It was about their decisions. I obviously can have no opinion about the game because it isnt out, however I can make assumptions about how I will receive the game based on information given to me. When more information is given, I can adjust my opinion. Its self correcting. Just like science.

I knew I'd hate Justin Beiber before I even heard him though...

fair enough :)

Personally, I doubt it, Mass Effect uses a shooter engine (Unreal 3) and DA2 using that as well, would mean that Bioware abandons its own engine (Aurora derivatives). I very much doubt they'd stop using and developing their own successful engine.

Dragon Age is indeed a return to the origins of RPG games but this doesn't mean a Baldur's Gate clone with new graphics. As for the combat, the more real-time it gets, without sacrificing tactical complexity, the better imho. When I first played WoW, I was like wow, this is like D&D but real time. Of course in WoW you can have tactics and all that because 25 different people control one character each. If Bioware finds a way to make party-based single player combat even a little more real-time, it would be great but I doubt their plans are to make this an action RPG, just change it a little and make combat a little bit more RT.

Again, this is speculation, we know nothing about the combat, it may just be a promo trick, and the combat stays essentially the same.

Finally, someone at the DA2 forums posted a complete list of what is officially said about the game, with links. See http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to.../index/3064634

So far (9/7/2010):


This is all that is known about the game, nothing more, all the rest is what people believe, without any legit source of information, the game will look like.

So far it looks quite promising, I'm just a little disappointed as I hoped for multiplayer.

Edit:

Thanks for the info, imisssunwell :)

However i'm confused by this point, i'm not getting it:
"More than half" of the Dragon Age left by the time Awakening begins [David Gaider]

I think (or know) that you still will be able to customize your character in Dragon Age 2. You must be a human named Hawke (last name), you can be male or female, though. You can play as a mage, warrior or rogue.

I have hunch that the story for Hawkw actually either is the human ordinary origin story that was cancelled for the first game, or a part of the origin story for such a character.

I've always looked at the DA universe as sort of the same as the Elder Scrolls Universe (that takes place in the lands of Tamriel) in which Bioware can tell the different stories they want to tell.

And the thread is not about how sexist is it to have a guy as the marketing sign for DA2, it is about why Bioware (and EA) won't market women on the cover of the game - if they did, maybe ne more women buy games like these.

David Gaider's comment is:

My take is that if awakening's end is already X years into the "Dragon Age" (as a time period), then there are still another X years before this Age ends. TLDR: lots of stuff can happen in DA world, lots of stories to be told.

Origins beginning may not be day 0 of Dragon Age (as a time period), there could be stories to explore even before that I guess.

yes that what I understand as well. They wanted to get freed from D&D licenses, so they created their own world, their own rules and do what Bethesda & Blizz do.

What can I say, people love to whine for every part of this game, they may as well whine for that. Anyhow a Bioware dev said if they were to do so, they'd use a hawt girl, so it's fine by me, not that I'm too interested.

from David Geider's Post http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...1453/1#3061696:

Update: Hawke is voiced http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to.../index/3069976

Guess thats why a male is on the cover, they probably voiced Hawke to be a male. Tbh I'd rather see them spending their resources on other stuff than a redundant female voiceover.

Redundant? I guess they will do the same as Shepard, so a female voice has to be present.

I played ME only as male but e.g. in kotor, where I played a female toon, it was pretty obvious the game was designed around a male protagonist. Also in Dragon Age: Origins, again, how do you

Spoiler:

have a child with Morrigan when the protagonist is female

?

Sometimes games are designed around specific genres, even if they don't specifically claim so. This doesn't mean you can't play as the other genre, but rather that one genre is more polished. Choosing the "other" genre has its limitations.

If DA2 is more polished for male characters, in case something they haven't already done it, I'd prefer it if they focused their money, time & energy elsewhere than a female voiceover.

Cheers, I'll put spoiler tags on my question as well, someone may not have played the game.

It seems in Origins, plot-wise, both genres well taken care of tho.

The mass effect series is overwhelmingly marketed with a male Shepard but the female Shepard voice artist is unarguably the better of the two and all kinds of awesome.

I don't mind them semi rolling a pre-made character to facilitate fully voiced lines. Conversations really do flow better, but its not without its drawbacks. Just try playing a back guy with Mark Meer's voice in ME2 (awful).

Its surprising just how much more punch NPC dialogue has when your character's name (ie:Shepard) is spoken. And how bloody awkward dialogue can sound when NPCs cannot say your characters name (Dragon Age banter is rife with this).

Side note: Jade Empire was marketed almost exclusively with the female protagonist Wu the Lotus Blossom, on the cover and all. Still no sequel for that...

ok, after Dale's reply on the plot DA plot thing and the re-assurance that in ME2 a female character also works well, it makes sense to have female voiceovers. My prejudice was based mainly on kotor, where

Spoiler:

A female Revan seemed to be unfit in several occasions, including totally missing the romance with Bastila. Carth romance was inferior imo.

About the voice overs, it has good and bad points. The good ones are obviously the improved cinematic experience and we wont have those awful moments where our protagonist don't express emotions and stare to the infinite.

However we also have a bad points. We will loose the role play aspect around our character (it will be his/her story, not our story), the game will probably be shorter and it can cut immersion, its a bit annoying when we choose a line and he/she delivers that line with a completely different tone and emotion that we want to express.

Spoiler:

I agree that the bastilla romance was better (mainly cause i love her character) but the Carth/Revan romance was not that bad either, at least i enjoyed it and it didn't seem unfit at all. Their romance was a lot better than the terrible Shepard/Kaidan... that guy was such a boring character :Z

When we play adventure games, is we not playing our story? then. I also figured we did, but that must just have been me, I'd guess?

Nearly every adventure game (modern at least) have a voiced over character and I've always felt that I was playing, assuming the role of say Sherlock Holmes or Kate Walker.

Also, the whole point about playing our character, I don't seem to get. We're playing a role, as in a character that is not us, even when the main character in an rpg like Baldur's Gate was not voiced e.g. didn't have voice over. The story is not about me in a strange land, it is about my character i.e. the character I'm playing in the game. And like in a play, this character may perform acts, I, as myself, would never do, in real life.

The point of an RPG is for the player to... role play, for the player to imagine himselft as that character in that world and play the game based in our decisions.

That obviously doesn't happen on adventure games, the characters are predetermined and we can't change his/her personality. In most cases the protagonist talks to the player, is more like a journey of two, player and character.

Not quite. It's all a part of the 'suspension of disbelieve' and the nature of the player's duality, even in adventure games, is not quite as simple as you put it.
On a certain level adventure games wouldn't work, if that were the case, I think.

Well i guess... but in most adventures we can't mold the character personality and abilities and thats the essence of role playing.

This is quite interesting but a little off-topic, maybe a mod could move this to a new topic like "comparing adventures to RPGs".

Anyhow, my take is this, roughly speaking RPGs can be divided in Hack & Slash, like Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Icewind Dale, and more heavy on RP elements (e.g. Planescape, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate ect). Of course there are many games somewhere between those categories.

Hack & slash games are usually lighter on story elements and don't share much with AGs.

Some of the RPGs with heavy RP elements, do have allot in common with AGs and in fact I'd like to see AGs, borrowing elements from them. Some of these games, like Planescape and the older Fallouts don't even require combat for their completion, or if they do it's very little.

Planescape gave us the nameless one, who was like a tabula rasa, instead of pre-fixing things. Planescape could have been an adventure if it was made without combat -which I'm not sure is needed for completing the game-. Of course people still cite torment even today for it's deep roleplaying but couldn't AGs be made in this fashion? I think yes and I'd be interested to see some developer doing it.

I'm a bit concerned about the new art style (which I hope it isn't too stylized) and about the improved combat style (I adore RTwP, and I wouldn't like for that too change).

With that said, I trust BioWare. They haven't let me down yet, so hopefully this won't be the first time. And in the meantime the announcement has convinced me to play through DA:O once again.

Cool, I didn't know that. Of course, it does point out that Dragon Age was released across more platforms (mainly including a PS3 release that MEs lacked) but still, I didn't realise DA:O did so well, especially since I remember reading somewhere that it didn't perform greatly during its first few weeks on the shelves (can't seem to find the link though, I may remember wrong).

Also, the piece compares DA:O to ME 1 (if I understand correcly), while, I believe, it wasn't until the huge success of the second game that the ME franchise reached its full potential for the Bioware-EA executives.

Anyway, it seems that the "total convertion to ME" that has been shouted from forum rooftops for the last couple of days may not be completely true after all. Conversation wheel aside, the combat is said to have retained much of its initial qualities with the rumored changes being more heavily intoruced to the console versions in order to make them equally user-friendly this time around.

I admit getting minor chills when a visual style reminiscent of Samurai Jack was hinted at by some speculators, though...

The info in this thread

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...4393/4#3074424


should put some of our fears to rest. Here's something about the combat (from an article in the Game Informer Magazine)

According to the article (from which The Elite Elite) has made a summary, the dialogue will be carried out through a dialogue wheel similar to Mass Effect and the games narrative will be like this:

I'm getting a fairly intuitive feeling that the story might be told like an adventure game then, but we shall see...

Ah excelent news! If they keep the combat in the same lines as the original my biggest fear is gone now :)

Well no-one from Bioware said combat is changing, all they said is "combat like a spartan" :P.