Comicbooks, graphic novel, sci-fi, fantasy, anime, etc...
 

Thought I'd start a thread for those of us into comic books and graphic novels, since it's common for gamers to also share these geek interests, along with sci-fi stuff as well.

Saw Hellboy 2 last night. GREAT movie. Saw more clips for the new Bathman movie. I also saw the new Bathman anime, called Batman:Gothic Knight. Very good. Check it out if you get a chance.

I've been burnt out on comics lately, but I tend to buy more independent stuff then the super hero stuff. However, I still get stuff from time to time. Comics can be quite addicting.

Frank Miller, is going to be directing a movie version of Will Eisner's old comic strip The Spirit. It looks like it's going to be in Sin City style. Looks very cool.

http://www.mycityscreams.com/

The ongoing Avengers: The Initiative, by Dan Slott and Christos Gage, is in my opinion the best superhero comic I've ever read. (And I've read thousands of superhero comics going back to the 60's.) Most issues stand on their own as self-contained stories, yet each is an important part of the bigger picture. The series takes characters, plot points and themes from every Marvel Comic out there, and fits them all into its own story as though it were totally obvious that they should all be there. It ties in with each year's crossover event in ways that add a lot to the event while simultaneously being a natural continuation of the series' own story.

The actual story of the book is fantastic. It's got a genuine edge to it, where it's always willing to get much darker than you think it might. And that makes the frequent humor and charm that much more refreshing. The new characters are endearing, and the old characters tend to be as entertaining here or more than in their original stories. The setting is the entire Marvel Universe, so there's no one in all of Marvel Comics' history who'd feel out of place showing up and the writers have free rein to do whatever the heck they want. The first year of the book, which ended two months ago, was about how government corruption ruins noble ideas and innocent people. I don't know what it's going to be about next, but I can't wait to find out.

I cannot recommend it highly enough. It is everything I could possibly want from a superhero comic.

(Some people don't like it. They baffle me.)

It's funny how much more mainstream comics are over here in Europe, in France especially. It's just another medium, scarcely limited to spandex-clad derring-do... in Holland it's still sorta considered mostly for kids, but over here major retail stores have whole departments devoted to comics both French and foreign. Manga's quite popular here as well.

But then there are some great comics around here... Franquin, Herge, Uderzo/Goscinny and others. Mind you, the first two are Belgian, albeit francophone.

I'm not hugely familiar with American comics, but with the possible exception of Miller's Batman, superheroes don't really do anything for me.

I used to read alot of comics when I was in college.

I still have some classics in my book shelves:

The Sandman series - Neil Gaiman (Best comic EVER)
Watchman
Batman Dark Knight and Dark Knight Strikes again
Batman Year One
Batman Killing Joke
A couple of Whedon XMen books
Batman Arkham Asylum
Books of Magic
Death a Time of your life
Kingdom Come
Some Preacher collections

Not so much as I used to have although I do pick up the occassional graphic novel.

Recent one have included the Buffy Season 8 comics which were ok, Y the Last Man was well written and The Walking Dead which is a very good zombie comic.

I tend to avoid the more mainstream stuff now.

Lucien, you should try Death : The High Cost of Living (which before The Time of Your Life). In fact, I'd recommend it to anyone as it stands alone whereas the second has many more ties to the Sandman series. Of course, you could all read Sandman as well. :D

Picked up a massive (2 inch thick) trade paperback of The Darkness (the comic book the game was based on) a couple of weeks back. Mob hitman inherits supernatural superpower (the titular Darkness) on his 21st birthday. Whilst useful this complicates his life immensely as both the forces of good and evil take an interest (and the forces of good aren't particularly nice) and he's not allowed to have sex any more (the power passes on to the offspring during sex, killing the father in the process) Nice dark sense of humour so far.

Being in the apparent minority here, I have to ask: What's the appeal with superheroes?

I mean other than indie stuff like Ghost World are American comic artists not capable of writing an interesting story without putting superpowers and/or crime-fighting in it? Is this where the ability to speak un-ironically of 'bad guys' comes from?

I mean as I said I like some of Miller's stuff because it has a satirical edge to it and everything isn't so black and white (ironic considering the choice of visuals) and I read some Preacher once and found it interesting, but Iron Man? Seriously? Daredevil? Captain America???

I mean part of the the fun of The Dark Knight Returns is that Miller makes fun of what an incredible buffoon Superman really is... but I honestly don't see how anyone can take these 'heroes' seriously?

I actually was surprised to find myself enjoying Spiderman, the movie (well, the first two at least) because the characters were well-developed and the story was entertaining, but I still wouldn't be caught dead reading the comic.

Order Of The Stick, anybody?

Why not?

American comics, have much more depth and history to them, then you might realize. You might find this interesting...

http://www.theshahnameh.com/history-...an-comic-book/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History..._Book_Industry

It's interesting that so many video games are being taken from comic book stories. (My brother played the video game version of The Darkness recently. Not too bad a game.)

I played The Spawn video game. Kind of corny, but it was still kind of cool to see his cape done so well in a 3-D version. (But I'm partial to things relating to Spawn) :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0409459/

Yes and I am oh so worried about that movie not living up to the comic.

Risky Risky.

(The character costumes look great though. Not sure how they are going to handle the weighty tome and especially the ending)

Several reasons.

- They look silly wearing spandex.

- Who needs super-powers? Wow, you can shoot lasers with your eyes. Congratulations. They're such a narrative cop-out. Like a character can't be made interesting without being somehow supernatural. Actually that's the only reason I don't mind Batman. He's just a dude what kicks ass in ethically debatable fashion...

Also Miller's "300". That's a historical (if romanticized) battle that actually happened in some form. That stuff is interesting. X-men, not so much.

- They promote the idea that people can be divided up into 'good guys' and 'bad guys' which is a view that you would think anyone over twelve grows out of, but apparently not.

- They take themselves too effing seriously which brings me back to previous point.

Well, rather than link me to Wikipedia maybe you could give me some titles you like that offer the substance I seem to be missing. I'm not entirely unfamiliar with American comics. For example, I'm aware that for years due to stringent censorship brought on by ye olde public outrage comics were too chicken to do anything that was not considered kid-friendly....

But seriously, do tell, what except for superheroes is there? The only title I'm aware of is Ghost World, but I'd love to hear about other good ones.

Have you tried any of the French or Belgian comics? They're quite something.

In their world, it's quite trendy. It's no different than any kind of fashion, except you can figure out who's who from a distance.In their world, everyone has superpowers. If someone doesn't have superpowers, it probably just means not enough has happened to him yet. No one really needs superpowers; in fact it's usually quite annoying to have them. Cyclops especially is a good example of that. So superpowers are just sort of how things are to begin with.

Not that the powers don't have their upsides. How'd you have super-powered battles without superpowers?Ah, but who's the good guy? I always root for Magneto and Dr. Doom. They're sure they're the good guys. Come to think of it, the whole situation is pretty realistic.Too seriously? [gasp] But the world will end!

:P


Look, you don't like the world, you don't like the world. Sorry about that. I like the world.

I sympathize, though. I guess I'd be hard-pressed to find much beyond Fables and Criminal and some of Jonathan Hickman's stuff if I didn't like superheroes.

If by 'world' you mean the world of superheroes, then yeah. If you're talking about the actual real world I think you may have misunderstood me. I like the world a lot, but I also recognize there are things wrong with it and grownups who seriously believe in the notion of 'bad guys' are not helping.

I like the fantastical in fiction, I just don't think superheroes are generally very good fantasy. I'll concede that sometimes it is done entertainingly, even elegantly, but mostly as a genre it just doesn't interest me.

Of course I'm talking about the superhero world.

Okay, never mind then. :)

I suggest you read J Michael Straczynski's Rising Stars series. Their powers and the world reaction to people with powers shape interesting characters in a way that wouldn't be achievable in a purely real world setting. They are no more a "narrative cop-out" than a PI with a drinking problem or a woman with a past she's running away from. These are aspects of the character that are used to shape their personality and serve as narrative hooks. Just because superpower stories have a fantasy element doesn't mean that's still not a source of narrative drive.
You should definitely read Alan Moore's Watchmen. I defy anyone to come away from that with a clear idea of who is good and who is bad. The moral ambiguity of most of the central characters is astonishing.

Ooh, good suggestion. Though personally I think his Supreme Power series was more successful at doing roughly the same thing.

You grew up in Europe I'm assuming, so it is reasonable to think you're going to be partial to French or Belgian comics. I grew up in the United States, so I am partial to American comics. The links I mentioned to you in my previous post, were just meant to give more background info on Amercian comics and why super heroes are so popular in American culture, that's all.

To those of us who love American comics, super heroes are of great substance...because of all the different types of stories we've read all our lives surrounding them. Many super hero stories also incorporate things going on in the real world, into story lines, which adds more dimension to the stories themsevles, or personal things the main heroes are going through.

Many super hero comics have delt with very "real world" issues over the years. Rape, teen pregnancy, divorce, war, poverty, violence, social issues, government issues, etc. As much as I enjoy realism in comics, I also enjoy being able to fantasize about what it would be like to be able to fly, shoot lasers out of my eyes, be invisible, etc. I mean, why not? Comics are a great way to feed creativity and the imagination.

As an artist, I also love the variety of art in comics these days.

I wouldn't be caught dead reading Belgian or French comics... (I'm teasing)

I am not familiar with Belgian or French comics, because I grew up on American comics. But I'm not one to judge something immediately, just because it's new, or different to me. I like to give new/different things a bit of a chance, before I judge them with sweeping generalities.

Ha. I deserved that one.

You are correct I grew up in Europe (Holland, in fact), but I also used to read a good few American comics as I was doing so. It's not for lack of exposure that I generally dismiss the superhero genre. I'm perfectly aware that there are instances of great storytelling, but much like fantasy I'm just not willing to spend the time wading through the majority of crap to get to the good stuff and even the better ones seem to descend into silliness eventually (especially in movie-form)...

Put it this way: It's not like you can't write good fantasy, but don't you wish game developers turned to something other than orcs & elves once in a while? Also, just because something touches on some heavy subjects doesn't make it profound. If Scooby Doo started dealing with serious issues, it would still be Scooby Doo.


I don't feel where you're from should ever get in the way of broadening your horizon. I actively seek out things that are not familiar. Too much of the same gets boring quick.

Tell you what? You try some French comics, I'll try some more American ones. Perhaps Watchmen, as suggested above, or maybe Sandman, which I've heard some about and sounds intriguing.

But I'm still not reading Spiderman. ;)

And Avengers: The Initiative! :)

Favourite Non-Superhero American Comics/Graphic Novels:
From Hell (Alan Moore, Eddie Campbell; adult)
Lost Girls (Alan Moore, Melinda Gebbie; adult)
V For Vendetta (Alan Moore; David Lloyd; mature)
Global Frequency (Warren Ellis, various artists; mature)
Orbiter (Warren Ellis, Colleen Doran; mature)
Sandman (Neil Gaiman, various artists; mature)
Maus (Art Speigelman; mature)
The Preacher (Garth Ennis, Steve Dillon; mature)

Favourite Superhero American Comics/Graphic Novels:
Planetary (Warren Ellis, John Cassaday; mature)
Promethea (Alan Moore, J.H. Williams III; adult)
The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Alan Moore, Kevin O'Neill; adult)
Watchmen (Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons; mature)
Astro City (Kurt Busiek, Brent Anderson; mature)
Concrete (Paul Chadwick; mature)
Jinx (Brian Michael Bendis; mature)

I'll come back and think about European stuff later. Doctor's appointment.
(ETA: Still Thinking...)

Here's the trailer for the Watchmen movie which came out today. I've never read the novel so I literally have no idea what's going on in it, but it does look impressive and if you're a fan you should be excited.

http://www.empireonline.com/video/watchmen/

Well, I may go see it at some point, but I know of one person who definitely won't see it; Alan Moore. As far as he's concerned, there is no way it can be done properly in film, and he also doesn't like the director's work on 300, so he really doesn't think this movie will be a proper representation of the book at all.

But anyway... I'm a huge fan of Alan Moore, but he's notoriously picky. Seemingly nobody liked From Hell, but I thought they did a great job with it, even if they screwed with the main characters of the story to get Johnny Depp into the leading role. It's still not as good as the book, but it did a pretty great job in places. The same can be said for V For Vendetta. Sadly, it doesn't extend to LXG. That film was just awful. Even Sean couldn't save it.

Still, I suspect Watchmen might work out better than Alan thinks.

I wonder what Moore didn't like about 300. I thought it was really good. Also really enjoyed V for Vendetta... but then I haven't read either of the comics, so I suppose I wouldn't know how they compare. They worked as films at any rate.

I just wrote a review for the ten-issue comic book Omega the Unknown. I've never written that sort of thing before for a superhero comic, but the guy who runs this review site found it interesting that I was seeing the whole thing as a metaphor for Asperger's Syndrome, and asked me to write it up. Anyway, yeah, it is a superhero comic about Asperger's Syndrome and it's totally awesome. I can't fairly assess whether it's as good as Avengers: The Initiative, though, because I'm biased toward this one.

The only few comicbooks I own are the series The Crow James O'Barr, which I started to love at around age 11. The owner of a comicbookstore said I need to read Spawn if I liked The Crow, so I need to do that some time. O:
I have a few Silent Hill comics aswell... But seriously, they really suck :(

Otherwise I only have a few mangas by Junji Ito (horror/gore-ish). I'm too cheap to buy Blade of the Immortal by Hiroaki Samura-- but I will some day! I really adore that manga. (and I am really disappointed with the anime that just came out-- even though I knew it couldn't stand up to the beautiful manga's art from the very beginning it was announced.)

Hehe... I realize it's mostly american comics discussion here, but it dooooes say anime in the title, so... 8D

I need to discover more comic books. So far, the only stuff I can think of that's really grabbed me has been Sandman, Maus, and Persepolis (oh, and Understanding Comics, if that counts). I'm always interested in finding more comics that are emotionally complex, non-superhero-based, and just generally groundbreaking and interesting, so if anyone can suggest anything, I'm all ears. Stuff written by women is a plus. And I don't like porn, so the "adult" stuff is pretty much out.

A side discussion: what makes something "mature", what makes it "adult", and what makes it neither? And does liking things from the "neither" category mean you don't have sophisticated-enough taste? :P

Have you tried Fables? It's a wonderful series, through and through.

As a general rule "mature" comics will involve the same sorts of issues that would earn a film an adult only rating (15 or 18 in the UK rating system) Violence (such as gangster revenge series Love and Bullets) black magic (such as long-running series Hellblazer) even sex (though only as an element of story. See "adult" below)

"Adult" comics are drawn porn. A perusal of this section in Forbidden Planet (a London comics shop) showed me there are artists with a lot of talent in this area excepting a somewhat suspect grasp of realistic anatomy. :P

Liking comics in the "neither" category just means you like those comics. I read a lot of books aimed at children and not being "mature" or "adult" in content doesn't stop them being well-written stories. A good story is a good story regardless of intended audience.

Speaking of which, Bone by Jeff Smith is the best comic I've ever read. I wish they'd release 'em in larger color editions.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll keep an eye out for it.

I forgot that one! (And to think I own the whole one-volume edition, and even sort of worked on the games...)

You may want to try Franquin (Gaston) or Goscinny/Uderzo (Asterix)... both are good in different ways, though they have wit and wonderful art in common. Avoid the later Asterix comics though. Not the same without Goscinny.

One comic that I loved reading as a kid, but is veeery local and hasn't I think ever been translated from Dutch is "Douwe Dabbert", originally published in Donald Duck magazine. It's set some time around what is known in Holland as the "Golden Age" back around when we were off pillaging Indonesia.

It's about a dwarf called Douwe who travels about carrying only a knapsack which has the magical quality of always producing just the one item he needs most without further explanation, leading often to much pondering what on earth he's to do with *this*... While mostly a rich historical setting it has heavy touches of fantasy with magic in particular playing an important role. Most of the stories are set in some part of Holland but Douwe also travels as far as Africa and the North Pole by way of mysterious bridge in a cavern below a witch' house... his traveling companion, for a time, is the world's last living dodo.

Great art-style and very imaginative stories.

http://www.ninjadodo.net/temp/wijn_douwedabbert.jpg

Oh, and that reminds me- I love Carl Barks's first few Uncle Scrooge comics. It's a shame nothing like that's being written anymore. Though I guess there might be European comics like that and I just wouldn't know.

I good 'graphic novel' I read last month was 'Pride of Baghdad' about 4 lions (2F 1M 1Cubb) who escaped their cages when a bomb struck the bag dad Zoo (true story). But the graphic novel is basically a fictional 'account' of what when on after that. This novel is not for kids.

Yeah, Brian K. Vaughan's good. Personally, my favorite thing he's written is Runaways, about a group of teenagers who find out their parents are supervillains. (But just the first 18-issue volume of it. It went downhill after that.) Pride of Baghdad's good too. He's most famous for Y: The Last Man, which was entertaining but not nearly as good as it's usually made out to be. I don't know if I'd want to reread that. And Ex Machina started out really interesting but quickly got stale. I didn't particularly care for any of his numerous Marvel miniseries. Anyway, I doubt we'll get a lot of new comics from him since he's working on Lost.

Oh, I forgot about The Hood. That was very good, and the character's still being used in Marvel Comics today.

Is anyone here familiar with Sean McKeever's work? I used to love everything he did. He was always good at characterizations, though maybe not so great with plots.

His best series was Mary Jane (and then Mary Jane: Homecoming and then Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane), where he was playing out the whole Spider-Man teenage soap-opera from Mary Jane's perspective. That was phenomenal. In each issue he'd have several storylines running through simultaneously, linked thematically, and that issue would be emotionally satisfying on its own, but then it would lead right into the next issue. And if I pull out a random issue just for a second and start looking at a few panels, chances are I'm not going to stop reading until I've got all the way to the last issue. It was really good.

He also did an Inhumans series which also was a teen drama. He's good at teen dramas. Except this one was a teen dramas about aliens. Really really fun.

The thing with his writing is, you really come to like all the characters, and with all his endings you want it to go on forever because you want to see what happens to them next. All the endings are unsatisfying like that.

So he did all that good stuff for Marvel, and then DC had him sign an exclusive and since then everything he's done has been crap. He was involved in DC's rightfully-hated Countdown weekly series, he went on and off Birds of Prey too quickly to do anything with it, except to repeat some female-brainwashing clichés, and now he's working on the utterly pointless Teen Titans. I blame his editors- they must be holding him back.

This one looks intriguing. I'll have to look out for it as well.