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Wormsie · 03-23-2005, 01:34 PM

This post will spoil the games Grim Fandango and Cirque de Zale.

Puzzles in amateur games suck. The main problem is not that too many puzzles are of the I-give-you-the-scissors-so-you'll-give-me-the-electronic-monkey -variety. It is only a part of the problem. The real problem is that those puzzles just don't fit in the plot. At all.

Let me compare Grim Fandango with Cirque de Zale.

In Grim Fandango there's a puzzle in which you need to help the Lost Souls Alliance by getting them a replica of Manny's teeth and a few pigeon eggs. In return the leader of the LSA will let Manny continue his quest. The LSA has already played and will play a major part in the later development of the plot, and you solving the puzzle has a real meaning in the development of the story.

In Cirque de Zale there's a puzzle in which you need to give a basket of goodies to a random pimp. In return the pimp will... I don't remember what it was, but I'm sure it wasn't that necessary or important. She'll help you somehow.

There is no difference in the basic structure of those puzzles. However, the pimp is just a random person thrown out to the streets. After the first encounter you will never see her again. The pimp doesn't tell you anything that would help you with the game later on, and it isn't really an integral part of the plot.

Another example is from the award-winning game Apprentice II. None of the puzzles actually are a part of the story. In fact, you solve a number of puzzles that have nothing to do with the plot in order to make the plot progress. The game can be fun, but it's not very good game design.

Simply put, we have to get rid of making these parody adventure games. Apprentice II was otherwise very good and well developed as a game, but its puzzles has very little to do with the plot itself.

What do you think?

P.S. I've previously posted this at Adventure Developers.

03-23-2005, 01:34 PM	#1
Wormsie Doctor Watson Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Catacombs Posts: 4,736	Today I understood that puzzles matter This post will spoil the games Grim Fandango and Cirque de Zale. Puzzles in amateur games suck. The main problem is not that too many puzzles are of the I-give-you-the-scissors-so-you'll-give-me-the-electronic-monkey -variety. It is only a part of the problem. The real problem is that those puzzles just don't fit in the plot. At all. Let me compare Grim Fandango with Cirque de Zale. In Grim Fandango there's a puzzle in which you need to help the Lost Souls Alliance by getting them a replica of Manny's teeth and a few pigeon eggs. In return the leader of the LSA will let Manny continue his quest. The LSA has already played and will play a major part in the later development of the plot, and you solving the puzzle has a real meaning in the development of the story. In Cirque de Zale there's a puzzle in which you need to give a basket of goodies to a random pimp. In return the pimp will... I don't remember what it was, but I'm sure it wasn't that necessary or important. She'll help you somehow. There is no difference in the basic structure of those puzzles. However, the pimp is just a random person thrown out to the streets. After the first encounter you will never see her again. The pimp doesn't tell you anything that would help you with the game later on, and it isn't really an integral part of the plot. Another example is from the award-winning game Apprentice II. None of the puzzles actually are a part of the story. In fact, you solve a number of puzzles that have nothing to do with the plot in order to make the plot progress. The game can be fun, but it's not very good game design. Simply put, we have to get rid of making these parody adventure games. Apprentice II was otherwise very good and well developed as a game, but its puzzles has very little to do with the plot itself. What do you think? P.S. I've previously posted this at Adventure Developers. __________________ Don't worry, I'm a doctor.