I fully admit that I didn't see the full logic of this puzzle immediately, but from memory the strategy goes something like this:

The rows and columns where the final total has to be zero cannot contain any reds, either originally on the base or added clips. Firstly then cover any reds on the base with yellows giving you the correct zero scores.

This reduces the options as to where red clips can be placed to give the required totals. Notice that a red clip has two ends and wherever you place one it will affect the total of more than one row or column. If a red clip is in line with the total, it counts as two (both ends). If the red clip is perpendicular to the required total only one end is in line so it only counts as one. Original red bases also count (this is what I didn't appreciate at first).

You are perfectly right chsmt of course and that was the strategy I used for my first couple of attempts – afterwards I used other strategies with the same awful results :(
It is the intermediate steps (which you also refer to) which seem to me to be absolutely crazy as you can see in the 2 examples I have given.

Along the way after any number of "moves" how on earth can you arrive a row which has NO REDS (but 5 yellows) whose number at the extreme left side is not 0 but1 1 ?????
OR --- For example, how on can you arrive at a column which has r REDS (but 2 yellows) whose number at the extreme top is not 3 but1only 2 ?????

How is anybody supposed to solve a puzzle like that? Or has EVERYBODY, like me, given up in despair after a while and skipped in order to continue the game – which is bad & ridiculous IMO !
If anybody HAS really completed the puzzle I would love to receive a "blow byblow" list of the steps from start to finish :)

Why don't you post the screenshots you have?

Doesn't your grid look exactly the same as the one in the walkthrough? You never did answer that. It doesn't change mid-puzzle does it?

I solved the puzzle without a walkthrough; I'm sure of it. Or else I would have quit and deleted the game from my HDD. I don't recall doing that.

OK --- I've occasiomally posted graphics on other forums but never as yet on AG - it's always a bit of a hassle - but I'll try later om today !

No - the overall grid doesn't change - only the red & yellow squares and WHAT SHOULD BE the corresponding cumulative numbers, some of which are in agreement with the coloured squares but haldf the time are NOT !!!

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/6537/pic7c.jpg

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http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/593/pic7dr.jpg

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Yep.

That's certainly fucked up according to my recent guess at how it works...

I'll have a look and find my old thread and see if I did actually come across this ugliness, or what...

Be back soon.

Okay found my old thread.

I did find that I too had an infuriating "episode" (the gameplay aberration/randomness/arbitrary-crap with regards to getting into a certain room)... I apparently did not experience the bomb grid bug you are dealing with...

I started that thread, so, I guess I did begin with some enthusiasm. And, later, with the running across the above, and a few other things along the way I lessened my enthusiasm.

And now, having seen your problem (I'll give it a maybe a little more thinking about as to the methodology -- maybe I've got it wrong -- but it seems to be a glaring a bug), I am ready to wholeheartedly agree that this is another big ugly bug. Which puts this game, sadly, in the end, in the junk pile.

And to think I went and created a thread believing I had come across a AG that wasn't somehow yet another miserable disappointment ;)

Just to help evaluate the situation, Len, can you post a screenshot of the grid without any clips?

Thanks.

I'm still thinking maybe I just "remembered" (I don't remember it really, just re-interpreted it from the walkthrough you showed me) the methodology incorrectly...

I am intrigued! At least that's something ;)

...

Yeah. But once it's done, it's done. Just bookmark it and attach your password to the bookmark... for the future; it's not vital, and it isn't necessary to keep high security anyway, just handy. And now you've done it... eh? At least that's another something ;)

Hi Matt,
I did not intend to cause you hassle or embarrasment.
You are (almost) the only one who has reacted to this affair - and for that many thanks.
I agree totally - there is a great deal of VERY good stuff in ANB including amongst other thungs a very interesting & original story and superb voive acting.
But some VERY BAD technical troubles including at least one dead end for certain and quitel likely more !!
I do not want to run the game down however - that was not my purpose, but just wanting to no whether I was alone with this apparently crazy behaviour.
If you have time, there are some things I would like to discuss with you but which I'd rather not post on the forum so if you agree I'd like to email you - but see an earlier post of mine for email details !!

I don't feel hassled (or embarrassed?). I feel intrigued!

I'm honestly curious about this glaring bug and why I didn't experience it and how no one else in the thread about the game experienced it. It is a kind of meta-game/mystery-to-be-solved now... So actually I will hold it against the game as far as objectivity goes, but kind of subjectively am getting more out of the game ;)

...

As for discussing other things I'd be happy to; just would have to (and I see you understand this) setup an email... OR maybe you have an irc cleint? and we could just meet on a server and actually be able to chat. Skype I left behind ages ago about the time eBay acquired it, or just before...

Anyway, IRC is stalwart and back-channel enough AND it affords us a chance to have a proper back-and-forth conversation rather than piecemeal as EMail would do...

I'm okay with any of it (I actually don't have a problem discussing any and everything out in the open either -- I prefer it but know others do not).

So, let's meet half way and IRC if possible.

I think I had IRC but stopped using it a long time ago and can;t remember its use at allt.
I use Skype a lot - it is excellent for international communication. Speech is MUCH easier & quicker for me rather than text communication (I'm not a touch or speedy typist) and it comes through both ends much clearer than phone calls and of course is free. I am in almost daily Skype contact with and helping a game developer iabroad, n Sweden. With Skype you can also ccorrespond textually if necessary and transmit file even those of very many Ggiga's with an automatic save mechanism if interruprted.
I don't use a camera - only a fairly cheap head set for speech.
(I guess you are situated in UK or USA ???)

The way it is on my game – it seems IMPOSSIBLE to solve !!!What I would like to confirm that it IS POSSIBLE to complete and not just a local corruption on my specific.gaccccopy of the game !
What I would REALLY like of course is for some kind soul to send me his/her steps in properly solving it thus proving that it is NOT a general (& VERY serious bug i.e. The following theoretical sort of example – although I know very well that this w)ould require some hassle on the part of some kind soul here !

Call columns A thro' E and rows 1 thro' 5
Yellow clip on B3 ----- red clip on D2 ----- yellow on E5 ----- yellow on A4 ----- red on A1 --------- etc to the end.

I am both shocked and disgusted.

Although it is against my principles I have no alternative but to reluctantly say that this game is indeed terrible.
Despite some wonderful stuff in it, ANB is a write-off.
I can't understand how Developers can invest so much time, effort, and MONEY into a game and not get decent beta testers to iron out the MANY bugs – the game is full of them - I can list them if necessary. There are literally dozens of minor bugs; at least 2 not so minor bugs; at least 4 major technical bugs,
But to cap it all for the second time I have run into a VERY SERIOOUS dead end at the end of chapter 6 (out of 8 chapters) which forces me to replay from a save a LONG WAY BACK

I am both frustrated & disappointed!.

I must apologize to anybody who has a direct or even indirect interest in [I]A New Beginning[?I].
I never criticize unfairly and if I do by mistake I always apologize – which is what I'm doing now
On further examination BOTH of the two serious dead-ends that I complained about ARE NOT SO AT ALL !!!.
Mea Culpa !
There are still quite a number of technical bugs and I still have a suspicion (but no more) that there MAY BE a dead-end lurking around.
And of course unless and until somebody comes up with a proper full solution to the "defuse bomb" puzzle, that is still a serious bug!

Len, the thing about IRC is that you can get a client that is portable and weighs-in at less than 100KB. And it's not tied to any commercial interests.

The thing about Skype is its a bloated, invasive, corporatized mess of software. I really can't go there.

Let's just discuss whatever it is you'd like to talk about here; or in the off-topic subforum; or, if you really think it needs to be private, on IRC or through PMs?

As for me I'm not embarrassed or worried about discussing anything out in the open, honestly.

...

In the meantime may I ask again if you can please post a screenshot of the bomb grid with all the clips removed? I still want to make sure I didn't re-evaluate the solving methodology incorrectly.

Thanks.

No - absolutely nothing "secret" or to hide !

Agreed - will just continue here - But there isn't anything really to add - it just seems to have got unnecessarily complicated - will conclude (UNLESS ANY FURTHER QUERIES) with repeating my basic question in my following post.
Cheers --- Len
***** Here is the start of the puzzle - before making ANY changes - 100% OK of course !

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1458/pic07q.jpg

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There seems to be a contradiction ( "A" versus "B") in this puzzle which I am anxious to solve. Unfortunately to resolve it properly & fully, somebody would have to spend quite a bit of time & hassle – and I don't know if anybody is prepared to do so, and I wouldn't blame them. :)

"A" ***** The only walkthrough I could find gives no step by step solution - which would of course solve the whole matter – it only mentions… yellow clips turn reds to yellows, and red clips turn yellows to reds. All of which is more or less self evident.
BIT - --- the same walkthru' shows a screecap of (the step before) the last which is perfectly in order.
Question !! Who arrived at this correct solution and how did s(he) do it ???

"B" ***** I have tried it a number of times and each time, after just a few steps I run into what seem to be technical absurdities – as illustrated in my previous posts (and so I have, like many others apparently, had no option but to resort against my will ti skipping the puzzle in order to continue the game!!). This is not due to my frequent encounters with puzzles with no 'instructions', and which I simply don't know what I'm expected to do. Nor is it dure to an extraordinary difficult or long manipulation of scores & scores of streps (as in some mammoth sliders or the like). It is simply due to the fact that my attempts immediately lead me to intermediate steps which seem to be completely buggy – as I've illustrated in previous posts. From my several attempts it seems that the puzzle's mechanism is totally corrupt & doesn't 'work' properly at all?!?!

BOTTOM LINE
The only way to resolve this contradiction with absolute certainty
is for some kind person to reinstall the game, insert a savegame (as close as possible before the puzzle) and try to solve it – but I repeat, I know that this would be a time consuming hassle (I could of course supply a savegame IMMEDIATELY before the puzzle to save time & effort).

***** If the results are as I have encountered then there is a VERY serious bug inside the game itself – and not just some possible local bug in my computer setup.
***** If on the other hand the game 'behaves' properly, then please send me the list of steps so that I can try them out myself – as written in a previous post of mine – something like the following :-
Call the columns A thro' E, and rows 1 thro' 5 :-
Put yellow clip on B3 ----- red clip on D2 ----- yellow on E5 ----- yellow on A4 ----- red on A1 --------- etc. etc. to the final correct solution.

I DON"T THINK THAT I CAN ADD ANYTHING FURTHER OF USE.

How big is the save game? I'm seriously considering a re-install. As I said, I am intrigued! :)