Mass Effect 3. Is it as good or as bad as they say?
 

Just checked out the metacritics reviews! Never again have I seen such a gap between critics and gamers! the critic score is 91 and the player score is 31!

How can you explain this?

Is it really as good as the critics say or is it really as bad as the players say?

I must say I enjoyed the first 2, mostly because of the story, cause I found the gameplay too first-person-shooter-y for my tastes...

Can I explain this? Sure. Mob mentality, which is getting worse and worse each day with gamers especially.

Reality is, if you liked the first games, you will love the finale. It's a great game, and a very emotional ride, especially the last hours. If you cared about the characters at all in the first two games (for me it was the top reason for enjoying ME1+2), you'll get your money's worth. It's not a work of art (no ME ever was that), but it is a very enjoyable experience.

All everyone talks (and whines) about is the ending, and granted, it's an interesting topic to discuss. But it's not a reason to drag the whole game through shit.

First of gameplay lazy, production values subpar for pc's at 2k12 ,level design monotonous, no vehicle use,mini games etc.
Not much new faces around this time and some important charecters have generic faces,some enviroment textures unbelievably low res,lack of attention to detail resulting with ridiculous outcomes.
Final battle horribly designed reaper beam cant target Shepard and missiles but everywhere..3 final decisions adequate i think and results are predictible.Same as I enjoyed the first 2 found this lackluster all the way and lots of people bear that coz of good memories but at the end enough is enough.
Anyway expecting lots of dlc to meet fans expectations but
what done is done for franchise.

Two weeks after the game's release and we're still getting unbelievably paranoid, baiting articles like this from supposedly respected video game sites like Kotaku: http://kotaku.com/5894925/what-ever-...-leaked-script

This backlash we're seeing is some of the most embarrassing stuff I've ever had to witness and what makes it even more shameful is the fact that Mass Effect 3 is, unquestionably, one of the biggest, most impeccably crafted epics of this or any other generation. Say what you will about the ending or the muliplayer or this extreme distrust of DLC, there's little to fault with the actual 30 hours of consistently fantastic content that make up the majority of the game, I honestly don't understand how you could be a fan of the series and not consider it great unless you've been caught up in this ridiculous mob mentality hysteria that kuze brought up.

If BioWare actually decide to alter their game to appease disappointed fans, it'll be a heartbreaking thing to witness. Asking someone to change their artistic vision because you simply don't like it is wrong on pretty much every level imaginable.

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forum...7&postcount=31

I loved it.

I understand the disappointed fans to a certain degree. Everyone has different tastes and will have different opinions which can be expressed in a logical and respectful way to the developers.

However it is the self entitled fan wanks that are doing most of the wailing and moaning. Hence the metacritic scores.

I'm only about ten hours in, but so far it's bloody fantastic!
ME2 is one of my favourite games of all times, and this has been of at least the same level up until now...

Level design is even more varied than in ME2, there's an enormous sense of urgency, it's emotional, dialogues are at least of ME2 awesomeness, and having constant cameo's by ME1 and ME2 NPC's is really fun.
Also, the variety of enemies is immense (and often excruciatingly hard - but that's to be expected with Reapers, of course)...

Despite all the hatred I have for EA's multiplayer and DLC decisions, I can't deny that BioWare has insane talent in making games...

I'm just curious to see what the ending will be like. All this criticism everywhere feels like they're just hating the game for its last five minutes, disregarding the 150 hours of gameplay the Mass Effect trilogy offers before it...

Bioware seems to be doing that a lot lately. Same thing happened to Dragon Age 2 but that game actually really DID suck.

I doubt Mass Effect 3 is as bad as DA2 but I stopped buying Bioware games because they're just not what they used to be ever since they merged with EA. That and I don't like Origin.

That said if you liked the first 2 Mass Effects, I'm sure you'll like this one too.

It's not fair to compare with DA2,that was kind a game couldnt go on
finishing demo.

Yeah I agree on DA2, so that's what I thought happened with ME3...so I take it that this isn't the case?

In about 10 hours, so far ME3 has definitely been better than ME2 though maybe not quite as interesting as the first one. Many things have been polished since the last games even if Bioware falls for the same "sins" they always do. Still, in my opinion it's even a great game.

I'm not buying into the whole "Bioware are amazing writers" thing though. In my opinion they create interesting (if somewhat generic) stories with pretty average writing, just with a certain level of freedom of choice and a pretty large quantity of it. So far this one has felt better written than ME2, but it has had its issues too (though the characters and conversations with them aren't quite as awkward as they were in ME2, aside from some weird moments with Shepard).

Nevertheless, I'm having a lot of fun playing it, and it's definitely not worse (but clearly better) than ME2. And an ending is, in the end, just an ending. It's the stuff before that really matters.

And I agree (without having seen the ending), it seems like a pretty sad thing if they go and change the end now.

No.

No definitely not it's completing the ME saga well enough(for now maybe)as it gets but not tryin something inventive or jaw dropping for grand finale's sake disappoints.
Like what for example,a war room control tactics,commanding fleets some strategic gameplay elements for this magnitude encounters,an open world like war map etc.lot of possiblities on stand but none of them capitalised (but good ol' deus ex's style plagiarism prefered)
I enjoyed the game like the prequels when story unfolds at first half of the game but when Shepard effort for gathering galaxy together for this kind of encounter then you only watch it at cutscenes falls really flat as direction,design and execution.

I disagree, the ending is the lynchpin of a game, and can fully ruin the entire experience. It's your goal, it's the last thing you experience and it's the payout of all the effort put in.

Well, it didn't ruin the game for me, as I didn't find it as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. The writing might have been weak and riddled with plot holes, but the dramaturgy was fine. And surely you didn't sink 90 hours into three games just for the final few minutes?

I see straw man has shown up.

Then excuse me for misinterpreting "payoff for all the effort".

It's definitely not as good as they say.

Everyone keeps saying that up until the last 10 minutes it's the most awesome game ever, and then the ending comes along and ruins it all. I disagree with this. The game pales in comparison to the first game, story-telling wise. The story telling in Mass Effect 3 isn't really as wonderful as some people seem to make it out to be; the inclusion of characters from previous games is often forced and stretches credibility, and I really get the feeling that somewhere along the lines the success of their previous games got it into the heads of the Bioware writers that Mass Effect was a great work of literature because I felt they were really pushing too hard with the whole, "This is war, war is tough" angle.

The scene with Mordin, is okay - not fantastic - but the internet seems to have eaten it up and believes it to be the most touching moment in gaming. :r

And as has been said earlier, the missions were boring and repetitive. Okay. I don't play Shooters, and I played Mass Effect for the story, but oh-my-god I almost gave up on Mass Effect 3 because I didn't want to have to go through another mission that was practically identical to the previous.

While Mass Effect 1 felt like a brilliant space opera, with what felt like a huge open galaxy to play in, Mass Effect 3 felt like a failed attempt at some lesson in fatalism or something.

I can't really write much without spoiling this for people that haven't played it; but I honestly wasn't expecting the ending to be as disappointing as the internet had led me to believe it was. But the ending was a lot more than disappointing. It was like Battlestar Galactica all over again. Only worse.

I was a fan of the series. The first game was the first game of this generation I truly loved, I read the books, the second game I felt was a let down on the first one for many reasons, and the third game... I'm sorry, but the way it plays out, and the way things happened and ended just does not leave me with a positive experience whatsoever.

Let's not talk about KoTOR 2, then ...

Any given game that I've played and I can vividly remember the gameplay/graphics/surroundings/atmosphere/etc and how much fun the overall experience was but I'll be hard pressed to specifically remember the ending of any of em until I think about it for a while.

To me it's a very rare occurence when the ending actually matters a lot. I'm very certain, however bad the ending of Mass Effect 3 may be, there is absolutely no way it can ruin the franchise... unless at the end you wake up as a kid in modern times and "it was all just a dream". But even that would be so hilarious it would make for an amazing ending lol.

Its at its best when you approach it like a goodbye to the series.

The focus is squarely on fan favourites Ashley & Kaidan, Tali, Garrus and Liara from Mass Effect 1, Mordin and The Illusive Man from Mass Effect 2. Other characters from ME2 get insultingly brief cameos.

The main plot isn't worth over thinking (I know, because I did) and a lot of the missions really do feel like complete filler, because they are (the multiplayer game was re-purposed and stuck onto ME3).

It can feel like a underdeveloped Mass Effect 2.5 (or alternate universe Mass Effect 2, given how irrelevant Mass Effect 2 proves).

Here's hoping they put the IP away for a year or two and return to it fresh with new art assets and a story that's locked in (including the ending) from the very start.

No joke user ratings matters.

I think it's just the last ten minutes of the game that are so incredibly bad that most gamers completely forget the rest of the game experience as soon as the credits run. The "31" score left by gamers is their immediate reaction to the game's ending. Critics are required to think their reviews through more thoroughly, so they're more likely to give the game a higher score. The game itself (before the last ten minutes) is pretty much amazing.

I read an interesting article about why there is a huge metacritic difference in games now not just ME3, and basically it boils down to the fact that when other products disappoint ppl have recourse such as returning the product and normally mainstream journalism sites have some ppl on their sides but thats not the case with games where you can't return the game and the growing disconnect with gaming journalism where the sites are dependent on game companies for income which many fans now feel that game reviewers are in the pockets of developers. So review bombing is the only direct way of getting their frustrations heard and felt. Me personally i thought the game was great other than ME3 went away from a lot of its RPG elements to appeal to new ppl, also i felt the ending was very lazy and it felt like a cop out and it left a very bad taste in my mouth.
This is probably one of the best reviews online about the whole game wth the ending problem and its mostly spoiler free if your interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY

This stuff has got so serious there is even an official reply from R. Muzyka, co-founder of Bioware. At least it shows they are worried.

He thinks his games art form, how;trying hard to be like a movie is the idea
of his art concept.

Hey Uptimist,

You probably know my opinions about games story lines pretty well, we've had some heated arguments in the past:D
I haven't played any of the ME games, I keep wanting to because everybody I talk to says it's fantastic.
Should I bother with it? I mean, it's a ton of time to spend with something you don't like, and knowing myself, if I get even past the middle of the first one I'll have to finish the trilogy.
You post made me pause, so, what say you?:)

The problem with trying to make player-authored stories as an art form is that by giving creative control to the player, developers also need to forfeit certain creative rights to make the formula work. Because the player is now the artist, a lot of this backlash is caused by Bioware forcing itself into the player's creative space at the most inopportune of times, much like someone scribbling all over someone else's painting.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the game is still otherwise fantastic. The combat controls are really fun, the story has a lot of strong moments in it, some of the situations are quite challenging (but not impossible), and the cinematics are really epic. In spite of the controversy, it's still a top-notch game.

I think the disconnect in review scores comes from the fact that, as usual for Bioware games, ME3 has been both praised and criticized for the wrong reasons.

The ending doesn't make sense, but why would you expect Bioware to be able to wrap the series up in a sensible way in the first place? The first game ended with the evil living spaceship losing its powers because you killed the guy it was possessing. The second game, whose plot had nothing to do with the first, was about skanks in catsuits and playing psychiatrist to your military operation so they wouldn't die on the suicide mission, where you fought the monster from Contra 3 that the crab people were building from liquified human remains.

Regardless, dashed hopes for ME3 to salvage some sort of meaningful work of art out of this mess caused a lot of gamers to rate it a zero. Which is as wide off the mark as the collaborationist effort to puff the previous games up as serious art was. The gamers' tolerance for the sham was the weakest link in that chain, with the game critics still caught up in their own imaginary construction, but the game itself doesn't deserve the backlash.

ME3 is good, and I didn't care much for the previous two games. If one doesn't think too hard about the main plot points -which one shouldn't- there is some excellent atmosphere and space marine bro action going on in between. It's like a space James Bond, played by Jennifer Hale, in which you take control on occasion to shoot at some goofy creature. Pretty cool IMO.

For shame, I have to admit that at the moment I'm having a bit of trouble remembering details about what such arguments were about... :P If you can refresh my memory I can maybe give better suited advice, as it probably depends on how critical you are to especially Bioware's stuff... But nevertheless, I'll give my feelings :) (get ready for a rant, or at least a lot of blabbering)

Oh, and thanks for valuing my opinion so much :D
Well, I think Mass Effect 1 was an excellent effort to combine a more traditional RPG with FPS elements. The story was interesting and it was well-built, it slowly starts to unravel and you have some decent open-endedness in the way you play it, and it manages to have a few nice plot-twists too. And the game had a great sense of exploration of the galaxy. The characters are pretty usual Bioware - if you tend to like them in their other games then there's no issues there, if you have problems with their characters then you'll have some of the same issues as always, but luckily the characters tend to be a bit better than usually. It's certainly interesting and fun enough to play through again, though in this (and I'll get to the same for ME2 where it's a very different reason) the main deterrent to replay comes from the slow exploration of unimportant planets (if you want to do it properly) with your Mako "car" which in some cases can get a bit tedious (though I wish they'd rather not taken it away and replaced it with the even-more-tedious (though not as time-consuming) planet scanning but just improved it).

In Mass Effect 2 they lost some of the magic in ME1. They decided to "streamline" pretty much everything, which was in some cases good but for the whole it went far too far. The "new" (that is, much improved) combat is more interesting than it was before, but the game also loses much of its old role-playingness. The story isn't so much a story as it is one mission from beginning to end, so that the main surprises come from how little there really is anything surprising - the story is definitely waaay streamlined. And they're so obsessed with their militaryness and especially "ooh, things are so desolate now, how will you make all these tough decisions?" that at least for me it started to feel a bit arduous. With the characters, Bioware seemed to get overly confident and thought they're the most profound writers ever, resulting in caricatures with syrupy drama. Also, they forgot about the open-endedness of your character to make the decisions he wants, and rather (if you want to be "at the top of your game") forces you to be either the ultimate paragon or ultimate renegade.

Now, I might make that sound worse than it really is, and I know there are people (very much on this forum) who will massively disagree with me, but you did ask for my opinions :P With all of that out of the way, I have to say that yes - I did still enjoy Mass Effect 2. I played it through twice (though the second time mainly just to get a very different save for ME3), and I liked it. However, any more I'd rather not play because while I enjoy the actual gameplay of it very much, the flaws in the story and writing become more and more obvious on each playthrough, and on the second playthrough I found myself having to load back several times because I was quick-jumping through the dialogue so much that I chose the wrong decisions in the dialogues every now and then. Also, the way that you don't have so much RPG elements is also a bit dull. It's starting to feel more like a shooter with RPG elements and open dialogue than RPG with shooter elements (which was the appeal to me in the first game)

Now, I'm not very far in ME3 yet. I can say that while they're still obsessed with having that desolate atmosphere and really squeezing all they can from that (and I'm sure they'll force an endless armada of choices where in each one something goes wrong), the story seems to be built better than ME2. Even the characters seem to be better written, and they're not just side-quests waiting to happen. They dumped, yet again, their planetary exploration for even more streamlined version, but this is a great improvement over ME2 so it's a good thing (and they manage to streamline it while giving it an interesting twist so it's not just going around gathering resources with a click of a button). Still, I miss going on "unimportant" planets and exploring them to find... you know, stuff. They've improved the combat and brought back more customability, even if it's not back at ME1's level. I think it's a pretty good compromise, adn overall I'm enjoying playing this far more than ME2, even if the "truth" tends to only come on a second replay. ME3 doesn't quite manage to be the perfect midway between ME2 and 1 I had hoped, but it still manages to compromise in the right direction.

So far, at least.

Now, as for whether one should play them at this point or not... I think that ME1 is definitely a game that, if you like RPGs, if you like scifi, etcetera, you probably should have a try at it. The storyline and all that is interesting enough, in my opinion, to get you through even if the action isn't totally your thing. And it was an important step, at the time, into a different kind of blend between genres.

ME2 is a game that if you liked ME1 and the way that it played, you'll probably want to play, if only to keep continuing the story. Or what little there is of it in this one. It is, however, seriously flawed compared to the first one and you shouldn't get your hopes up in regards to the story. Unfortunately this seems to be a game which is just a little halfway step in between the first and third ones, like an exercise. Still, it's enjoyable enough so you shouldn't quit playing through halfway.

ME3, well, I don't know yet :D I think ME1 is enjoyable as a stand-alone game, though I haven't played it in a while so I'm not sure if the age is starting to feel yet or not. Anyway, looking at them just storywise, ME1 is worth it just for the story, in ME2 the story is the weakest point (though not absolutely devastating, just very much below expectations) and ME3 hopefully might fix that to at least acceptable levels.

Now, like I said, I'm having a bit of trouble remembering your preferences, so maybe I can say more if you refresh my memory :D But generally - yes, I would suggest the first Mass Effect. After that's it's your own call :P

Marvio I think it may have been me under a different guise, rather than my main man Upsie, with whom you disagreed. Regardless, what he said.

I'm sure a lot of people who played Mass Effect 2 missed out on some of the BEST lines of dialogue and a more dramatic story line because they felt so compelled to use the mind tricks.

Importing a save that avoided them, almost entirely, made for a better ME3 game. Because I hadn't finessed events skilfully through ME1&2 I had to face some consequences in ME3.

I think part of why the Mordin scene in ME3 gets overhyped is Paragons and Renegades finally face something they can't easily fix, and it was a result of 'best decisions' from ME1 & ME2. In my game I'd fucked up events in the prior games so badly that I was able to save Mordin...

Real ending revealed:The Marauder SHIELDS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=467pm...layer_embedded
http://images.wikia.com/maraudershie...s/8/8a/377.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c10AU.jpg

I had my own 'happy ending'

I love the Mass Effect series. Obviously the combat pales in comparison to a modern WRPG like Deus Ex Human Revolution and its vast range of play style choice. However, you play these games to be moved.

The writing and the acting and the pacing and the settings and the themes - it's a very satisfying choose-your-own-adventure type of series that surpasses similar ambitious projects like Heavy Rain and one of the few games that will make you choke up.

I don't give a shit about this ending controversy. As long as more games of this ilk appealing to audiences who want interactive story development are being made then I'm a happy camper. Rockin' and a rollin'.

Well 2 days ago I was still laughing at all those raging nerds complaining about the ending in Mass Effect 3 but now that I finished reading Harry Potter, I know how disappointing a bad ending can be. I kind of understand them now lol.

Wait, how is ME not a modern WRPG? It's W, it's RPG, and the third installment is one month old. Anyway, I do agree Deus Ex HR offers more variety in play style.

Sorry, I didn't know my comment made it sound like ME3 isn't a modern WRPG. I was making a comparison because they're in the same field.

The Witcher 2 is also an amazing WRPG I'd recommend.

It certainly verifies what we've known for years. Story in video games is important! John Carmack was wrong.

So you're the raging chubby old guy wearing a hogwarts robe near my friend's house! What a twist!

Cross-post from the "Last finished game"-thread


Mass Effect 3 - 5 / 5

Just finished Mass Effect 3, the epic conclusion of my favourite gaming trilogy. The first game was one of my favourite RPG's, the second game ended up as one of my favourite games ever. And now the third game lives up to the others' reputation. And how!

The third game improves on the "dumbed-down elements" of Mass Effect 2. Customizable weapon mods are back (although in short supply compared to the first game, but at least they're back), powers are expanded heavily, planet scanning is greatly improved (and had a nice mini-game twist in it), and the gameplay is a lot more dynamic (the maps are less corridor-y and a lot more open to enemy flanking). It's basically a good middle ground between the RPG-elements of ME1 and ME2.

Compared to ME2, the dialogue is a lot less badass and a lot more gloomy, but considering the billions of people dying in this installment, that's understandable. And I love the fact that practically EVERYBODY makes a cameo appearance in the third game without being too in-your-face with it. Agreed, some characters could've gotten a bit of a larger role this time around (especially my Krogan buddies Grunt and Wrex), but overall, I was very happy with the story and the character interaction.
Heck, ME3 is simply an emotional rollercoaster. And there are some epic sacrifices being made...

In the 47 hours it took me to reach the end, I have thought at multiple moments that I was playing the best game ever. Despite the flaws it has, I'm calling it the most awesomest trilogy of all time. And don't get me wrong: there are flaws. The first game had clunky vehicle control, the second game had tedious scanning, and this one had a couple of bad design decisions - most of which I blame on EA's pull over BioWare.

I hate the fact that they have Day One DLC. I hated it when they did that in ME2 (with Zaeed) and I hate the fact that I have to pay extra for the Eden Prime mission and an extra squad member who's not unimportant for the Mass Effect universe. This gets chalked up to the greedy bastards at EA (who've used these nickle-and-dime tactics a LOT these last few years).

I hated ME3's multiplayer campaign. I'm invested in the story of the trilogy (as proven by my 3 playthroughs of ME1, totalling 133 hours, and my 3 playthroughs of ME2, totalling 131 hours), but I'm not THAT interested in the action.
Being forced to play online in a multiplayer campaign to get a better result in the single player portion is something that's just not done. Especially if you go through the trouble of including a very easy "narrative" game mode where the difficulty is so low you could go through the entire game unarmed and come out unscathed. The multiplayer campaign reeks of DRM.
And the multiplayer isn't even good (well, at least not for me). It's exactly the type of multiplayer FPS that I don't like: surviving swarms of AI's on a small map - not my thing.
Luckily my Google-fu is strong and I was able to bypass the entire multiplayer portion of the game by doubling all war asset values in the game files. That meant that my Galactic Readiness of 50% now gave me as many war assets as I would have originally had with 100% Galactic Readiness. If you think that's cheating, bite me. It's basically me giving EA the finger. :D
I finished my full male Paragon Adept playthrough (of all three games with all DLC) with an Effective Military Strength of 6884 - which is not too shabby. According to my saves, that's taken me almost 142 hours - so yeah, I'm invested in the story!

And now, let's (finally) talk about the ending controversy. To be honest, I'm fine with the ending as it is.
Sure, there are plot holes, but suspension of disbelief carried me through them the first time. Right now, I wouldn't mind the game staying as it is. I'm not sure if I'd be this leniant on a second playthrough, but for now I'm good. I definitely understand the controversy, though.

Spoiler:

I chose the Synthesis ending. I always figured this trilogy would end with Shepard dying, so I was prepared for that. And sure, it's odd to see Joker fleeing with the Normandy (he had no reason to do so), and it's even more odd to see one of my squad mates - who was just behind me in the beam run - ON the Normandy, but I can chalk that up to lazy writing / lazy cutscene development, however odd that may be in a deep trilogy like this. It can't be due to a lack of time (or the Day One DLC wouldn't be there), but if it's a slip then it's only a minor one, imo.
I had enough closure to be satisfied - the conversations in the FOB made sure of that, so even if it would be nice to see what happens with your squad mates AFTER the end, I don't mind that they left that open.
Especially not because it's only the last five minutes of a 140+ hour adventure that are not 100% up to scratch with the rest. I'll call this entire controversy "ridiculous fan entitlement", and I'm not afraid to say that "modern gamers are whiny bitches".

But I have to admit: the Indoctrination Theory has a LOT going for it! It takes care of ALL the plot holes, it can be traced back to the first game (check this video for all details) and it would be a twist that's as awesome as the one in Knights of the Old Republic...
Unfortunately: no attempt whatsoever has been made to clarify it ingame. Sure, now that all the details are added up (like in that vid I linked to) it makes sense. But you basically need to see that video to understand it. If that was the twist they intended in the game then they did several things wrong: it's not clear enough that THAT was what was going on, and if it's true, then they didn't release a finished game.

No matter what BioWare does now, they're basically screwed.
If they don't change the ending, then they'll be left with hundreds of thousands of pissed off gamers. Most of whom seem fanatic enough never to buy anything off BioWare or EA ever again.
If they change it to a new ending, then they're admitting that they did a poor job the first time around and they'll be setting a dangerous precedent that will cause game developers to be at the gamers' mercy for years to come. This last part will take all risks out of game design, lowering overall quality and potentially crippling the entire gaming industry.
And if BioWare had intended the Indoctrination Theory all along, then they purposely withheld the real finale for the game. Seriously, if they release DLC in a few weeks or months that gives credit to the entire Indoctrination Theory, then that means that Mass Effect 3 is ultimately a game that had its finale cut to nickle-and-dime everyone further. This will wreck both EA and BioWare's reputation.
And even if they'd release it for free, given all the complaints and flack they've been getting, the damage is actually already done.

Yet, despite all this controversy surrounding the ending, Mass Effect 3 is still one of the very best games I ever had the privilege of playing.

I'll hold off my second playthrough until I see where they're going with the DLC-rumours (and to avoid Mass Effect fatigue), but that second playthrough WILL come!