Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots
 

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/ima...6_embed005.jpg

w00t!!! We have screenshots! Snake is back! And he's...old!

Why is it that every new MGS game that comes out only seems to provide more proof of Hideo's insanity?

mag

woot woot woot woot woot woot woot!

pwnz0rs.

It looks like such a dark and depressing game. Wicked.

could someone rich please GIVE me the money for a new ps3 when it comes out? i really have no intention of buying it otherwise and all i want to play is metal gear solid four! it's so unfair!

I wonder if Metal Gear Solid 3 is ever going to get a PC release. I enjoyed playing MGS and MGS2: Substance on PC (and I only own a GameCube).

It is unfair. I'll probably be waiting for at least the first price drop to get a PS3 myself. Although, if you were to get a PS3, I'm sure you could find plenty of other games for it besides MGS4. Of course, at this point, it might be worth getting a PS3 just to find out what the **** is going on with the Patriots.

Still, there's always the hope that they'll port it to the PC like they did with MGS 1 and 2.

mag

Even more evidence of Kojima's mental instability:

mag

oh hell yeah

The trailer for this game and the general concept (Snake as aging cop) has made me want to go back and actually play the first 3 games so I'll be ready for the 4th one.

Hey look, R2D2!

but that means i'll have to buy a decent PC! and the truth is i want to quit games, i've started to read more now, but NINTENDOGS is nearly here, what do i doooooo?

;( ;( ;(

Why would you want to do something like that?

mag

Obviously I won't be making friends in this thread by saying this, but Hideo Kojima is a hack. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy most of his games, but the guy should just make cheesy movies as far as I'm concerned. He did want to be a film director originally, afterall. It's so obvious for someone like me (movie fanatic) to see every...single...source that he has ripped from. In his "camera work", in his dialogue, in his characters, in everything... The man doesn't have an original idea in his head I'm afraid.

Even back in 1998 before I had seen as many films as I have now, I wrote up a list of all the rip offs I noticed in Kojima's Metal Gear Solid for Playstation. I think it totalled up to well over 20 instances (at least three from Kurosawa, two or so from McTiernan, one or two from Michael Bay for God knows what reason, etc.). He has been like this from the beginning. Snatcher was good fun, but the guy basically combined Blade Runner and The Terminator. It just bothers me that he gets so much credit for being some sort of storytelling genius through the medium of gaming, when everything he does is unoriginal. Oh well, like I said, the games are fun for the most part...

Maybe if he was making movies what you say would be true. But as video games, the Metal Gear Solid games are very original.

Besides, what's so wrong about re-using somebody else's techniques? There's no point in reinventing the wheel for each new project. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

mag

It's not just techniques though mag. His games play out, for me, like a bunch of clips from things I've already seen before linked together in a sort of tribute. Story, dialogue, etc. Not just techniques by any means. The gameplay and art direction can be a lot of fun, but even those elements were getting a bit archaic in MGS3. It had that same very limited camera view for gameplay, and no 16 : 9 or progressive scan support to make the visuals more up to date. Frankly, because of the player controlled camera, co-op, and realism (no soldiers who won WW2 that float around in a pack of hornets), the Splinter Cell games have surpassed the MGS games in my view. This could certainly be addressed in MGS4, and judging by the quality of the graphics I'm sure it will be (no one would limit the player to such a horribly limited view in visuals like that).

I can see saying that this or that particular technique or plot point is derivative. And I can even see complaining about the quality of the dialogue, which is, frankly, one of the weakest points in the MGS series. But to say that Kojima's story telling or game design in general are not original just strikes me as ludicrous.


The camera view was a problem in MGS3, I'll agree. Not so much in 1 and 2 because you could use the minimap. But if you're going to take that away, you really have to give the player more control over the camera angle. You have to have one or the other. Still, it was a fun game in spite of the camera issue. And setting it in the jungle rather than in another indoor/urban environment really added a lot to the game.

Splinter Cell I would say is a damn good stealth action game as well, but I'm not sure I'd say it's "better" than MGS. As with everything, it depends on what you're looking for. If the gameplay is all you're interested in then SC is, in many ways, better. On the other hand, half the fun of playing a spy game is the political intrigue. And on that level, SC doesn't even begin to compare to MGS. Its intrigue just isn't very intriguing at all.

Also, let's bear in mind that Hideo Kojima pretty much invented the stealth action game. We probably wouldn't even be talking about Splinter Cell right now if it hadn't been for him. So the claim that Kojima lacks any originality I don't think holds much weight.

mag

Just to add my disagreement to the assesment that Kojima is a hack, as he is one of the few brilliant designers in our field, but, and this is a big one, he listened to his fans. Despite his personal problems with true 3rd person(he gets motion sickness), MGS3: Subsistance coming out early next year is doing just this. Full 3rd person gameplay with player controlled camera and online multiplayer gameplay including all the great stealth and CQC stuff.

I'm a fan of Splinter Cell myself, but it most definitely does not have the incredible attention to detail and production value of a MGS game...nowhere NEAR, and again, I consider SC to be a competent series by competent people. Thats just how good the MGS games are. The ending in MGS3 alone was so powerful for me...SC has yet to match that on any level.

Cheers

Then you've just been striken to think of me as ludicrous. :)

Seeing as how it's a game, the gameplay is my primary interest. The storylines of the Splinter Cell games are much simpler, but that doesn't bother me. The atmosphere is more realistic and the things that happen in SC are much closer to life than the far fetched "intrigue" of MGS. Not that I mind far fetched, I just happen to like both.

Hmmm... I disagree, but not completely. The thing is, I was playing Metal Gear back in 1988 (ah, little eight year old me...) and if you want to consider that the birth of the "stealth action genre" then fine, yes, Kojima was a pioneer. But honestly, that game was too simple to be the father of the genre as it exists today. I remember it perfectly, right down to the glorious translations ("The truck have started to move!"). It was a fun game, but a stealth game in 3D is so much more dynamic and exciting that I consider the 3D "stealth action genre" to be the real innovator here. And the game that really invented that was probably Tenchu (it was the first I remember playing anyway).

Basically, I agree with you that Kojima deserves credit. In a sense, he did invent the genre. But the real leap forward (like Half-Life in the FPS genre) was Tenchu in my opinion. Granted, MGS was already in the making at that time and would be released a mere seven months later, but Tenchu beat it to the punch, and one could argue that it had equally good gameplay.

That's an emotional reaction though, to plot, not gameplay. If that's how you want to judge MGS against SC, that's fine of course. But I think it's a bit unfair. Splinter Cell is much more about gameplay, less about plot. It makes no attempt to have an epic ending or storyline.

Also, the SC games have plenty of attention to detail. The environments actually look a lot better than the ones in MGS3, and as for production values...it's hard for me to take MGS seriously when they are still in the dark ages of RCA cables and 4:3 screens.