Adventures of FatMan review
Some people think it was too harsh, considering it is the work of one person.
Personally I disagree on a few points and I would have given this game 2 and a half stars, or maybe 3. One thing I'm happy about: It's being judged as a commercial game, not as 'amateur'. I think it raises the bar for independent developers to develop better games which may even match the big companies. --Erwin |
Perhaps this isn't really a big league game. While it certainly isn't completely an "amateur game" because of it being commercialized, I still wouldn't think it a big league game. More of a little league game :P And so, I too think it was a little harsh... :sad:
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We have a very simple editorial guideline. If a game is being sold commercially, and isn't available as freeware anywhere, it should be reviewed on the same level as every other game we've reviewed. We don't throw stars around randomly--these games have to earn them just as much as other games. Examples: Fatman, Sydney Mystery and Dark Fall.
If a game is freeware, we'll review it as part of AG Underground, sans score. We believe that a score would in many cases be unfair to the author. A lot of games from the amateur scene are 'experimental', or some developers are in the middle of a learning curve. We can pick the best ones out as recommendations to our readers, but we're not going to hand out stars to those games. |
Yeah, I don't really care if it's the work of one person or an entire team - if I have to pay for the game I want quality stuff.
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It still costs much less than a real, professionally published game would...But I see what you're saying.
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We know that the price is much lower than usual, so that's why we included the closing line:
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I agree that the review may have been a little harsh, and I talked at length with the AG guys while I was writing it about how to judge this against other commercial games out there.
I think Socko created a good game - espcially for a one man team. But I can buy Syberia or No One Lives Forever II for 15 bucks right now, and if you stack those up against Fatman, then there is just no competition. It was essentially the same thing as pitting Mall Tycoon IV against Sim City IV - nice try but it's just not all there. Do I think the game is worth playing? I absolutely do - with the voices turned off. Do I think the game is worth 15 bucks? Not at all - especially when I can go and download 5 Days a Stranger for free. I'm glad to see that the review elicited such a response. It's nice to see a forum where the readers are actually thinking about what they're reading and not just looking for flamebait. For what it's worth, I stand by what I said. This could have been a great amateur release or a mediocre commerical release. I commend the guts that Socko had to put it out in the commercial realm and take a chance, and I think that we are going to be astounded by these guys in the future. |
Hmm, you can download Kings Quest 2 VGA for free, and the game by itself can compete with many commercial games. KQ2 is the game that is worth your money. If it was for sale. But Adventures of Fatman... The Demo didn't make me want to by the game.
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--Erwin |
Definitely not 30 minutes. It's a game of fairly solid length.
It seems the voice acting in this game polarizes people. I'm one of those who thought it was great. Not every voice was great, mind you, but on the whole I really enjoyed it, in no small part due to the narrator, who I thought did an absolutely brilliant job. It was intended to be a ridiculous accent, and was essentially parodying the typical deep narrator voice, and I thought it came off extremeley well. |
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The other voices ranged from mediocre to quite good, I'd say. ToxicMan blowed too much in his mic, though. Cracks and hisses aren't too pleasant on the ear. I found the voice of Fatman himself pretty good! --Erwin |
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Hiro! Is that the same Hiro Protagonist that I knew back from the early days of Four Fat Chicks? If it's you, long time no gab, buddy (er, but I thought you hailed from Canada unless my brain is melting down, which is entirely possible). And if it's not the same you, well, hello you person who has the same online handle as an old friend of mine! :D In either case, your reviews are well-written and informative...
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Well, no matter if an adventure is indie or not, no matter if it has cutting edge graphics or not, if ones has good time playing it, I think it deserves full credits. Admittedly, Fatman has some glitches, but it's a very enjoyable game. Reviews like that are not healthy for indipendent developers.... :(
Alastor |
I think Ags line is right on this; for an ameatur adventure it would be very good but as if you're going to charge for the game then you have to accept it is judged along with other commerical releases. It does look good though, and I might check it out. But I'm saving up for big name commercial releases at the moment so it might not be for some time.
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Just so people know, Mike of SOCKO! is currently considering a few options regarding Fatman. He may drop the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) or he might offer the base game for free with a slight charge for the speech pack (which is a big reason the game is so large).
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Critique is actually more healthy than anything. Giving Fatman preferential treatment is not. |
Agreed, Marek. If anything, reviews like this send a signal to other amateur developers that will perhaps cause them to think "Hmmm... well, if Fatman got that kind of review, perhaps we'd better make sure our game is pretty damned good before we decide to tack on a price tag..." There's nothing wrong with that. And Mike's reaction to AG's review was not one of bitterness; his response was "Hey, I'm surprised I didn't get more like this." He clearly took it in the spirit in which it was intended.
I still think the review was perhaps a bit harsh, but this is independant of the thoughts I've expressed in the above paragraph. |
Here's a thread about the review on the AGS forums: http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index....;threadid=9095
--Erwin |
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The comparison should be - is Fatman worth buying at full price as much as Syberia was worth buying at full price? ie - is this new game which costs me half as much as Syberia did when it was new, at least half as good as Syberia? |
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I mean, I don't think a reviewer would give Grim Fandango a higher score because their development team was bigger than Tony Tough's. Same goes for price. --Erwin |
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This will probably be my last post on the subject - naaah - but here's the bottom line. I wasn't trying to play 'beat on the amateur' with this review, and frankly I don't see many areas where it was all that harsh. I didn't like the voice support so I suggested turning it off. I liked the Fatman character graphic but I thought the rest looked like programmer art. The puzzles were good but there was some pixel hunting that would have been unthinkable in a commercial game. And as far as the story, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That's it. It didn't get two stars because I'm a meany. It got two stars because it doesn't stack up against other commercial releases - which like it or not, it is. Hell, I only gave Sanitarium 3 stars, and it's practically a legend. I'm glad you guys are so willing to discuss this, and I'm glad that Mike is looking at other options. He has put out one of the best games using the AGS engine that I have seen, and I can't wait to see what he does next. And as the human torch says, 'Flame On'... :D |
Let me make this totally clear: the price of Fatman is a big part of the review, as well it should be. Lack of a price is why we don't review amateur adventures with stars. If Fatman cost, say, $3, I think a slightly higher score would be justified. If it cost $40, it would definitely deserve 1 or 1.5 stars because it's laughably below that level of quality. Developers set their own bar when they set the original price of that game.
I spoke a lot about our review system in another topic, and am not eager to go through it all again. But we always welcome constructive criticism of our review index, and we're always trying to get a little better. For what it's worth, I originally was going to review Fatman and passed it on to Robert because of time issues. I played through about half of it before sending it to him. I think that, if anything, Robert was very diplomatic in his review. Fatman would have been amateur game of the year. It's just a very good commercial game. And none of this should be taken as a personal offense towards Mike Doak, who is an exceptionally nice guy, and I have no doubt he will use the constructive criticism to make his future games better. - Evan |
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Offtopic: You can buy Tony Tough for only $12,99 right now. --Erwin |
Hey guys,
Just a quick note... I noticed in the AGS forums that there was some concern that my comparison of Fatman's graphics to the RON series was meant as an insult. Just for the record, I am a huge fan of the series, and the graphical comparison was meant as just that - a comparison - and not as an insult. |
Ha! You asnwered my questions just as I was writing it. The RON thing was the only part that bothered me, since you make a point of reviewing it as a commercial product, comparing it to an amateur game seemed out of place. Plus the RON graphics are so inconsistant (they vary from jaw-droppingly gorgeous to eye-gougingly horrible) it is difficult to understand exactly what you meant.
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- Evan |
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--Erwin |
Just so people are aware, SOCKO! Entertainment is closing its doors at the end of the year due to tax reasons, so if you want to order your copy of Fatman, you'd better do it soon. After SOCKO! is gone, Fatman will be declared abandonware; Mike Doak is not planning on supporting or hosting Fatman, and will be moving on to other things. Personally, despite the AG review, I think it's worth at least considering. He has dropped the price to $9.99 (still with free shipping) and it's hard to beat this deal. You could easily spend more than that on lunch.
Website is http://socko-entertainment.com/ |
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The url: http://www.agsforums.com/yabb/index....tart=msg112268 |
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