:crazy:

@Adventurere No.1:

On top of what was mentioned we all have gotten used to certain game mechanics and puzzle design. We know how things work. (Or are supposed to work.) We look behind the puzzle and recognize the underlying mechanics.
A game that wants to be hard but fair at the same time has to be really friggin hard today. And most likely won't sell too many copies.
And I for one don't miss unfair games.
But I agree that in general we get more and more restricted and spoonfed.

I see you mention Kings Quest favorably. Do you have a specific release in mind?
Are you sure nostalgia isn't clouding your judgment here?
Just looking at the puzzle design it often was unforgiving and downright unfair. Unless those are really qualities that you look for in a game.
Perhaps you enjoyed baking the cookies in Still Life, too. ;)
I'm not just poking fun at you, btw. I'm interested to know.

Shnubble you you made feel little ashamed here ,lol ... sure i dont mix nostalgia with hard games though i admit i always have nostalgia towards old adventures , but tell me about a 20 years old adventure player who does have it??!
i think the idea i wanted to suggest got little mixed up, no one would search for a game and interested only 'bout its difficulty ; that would be so foolish, indeed! ,but games that goes on very smoothly tends to be so boring !!
yes i enjoyed baking the cookies in Still Life, as much as i enjoyed making that magic potion in Book o Unwritten tales :p ... i just want games that are not so easy ,that can twist our minds and when you find the solution you feel REALLY rewarded!! , i dont think that what i am looking for could not be any different from what every adventure player looking for too.
feeling rewarded though the game as much feeling rewarded after finishing it and at the end you'd say "That is a Game!!.. it worthy for every penny i payed and all the hours i spent connected to it more than the real world around me"

Sherlock Holmes - Nemesis aka Sherlock Holmes versus Arsène Lupin, really hard Holmes game I thought! I remember a chain of puzzles in the game that had me constantly alt-tabbing to a walkthrough.

I was also going to recommend Discworld 1. But I'd like to add that I recommend this because most people I know have reported it to be difficult for them, as they found the logic weird. Myself, it was simply great and funny. Then again, my way of thinking can be considered weird at times. Also, I might just have adapted too much to the Discworld universe, so that I can easily follow the logic. I guess it's both. :)

Still, I recommend the Discworld games, particularly 1.


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Defintiely Black Dahlia and Discworld. Both are some of the most difficult games I ever played, as well as some of my favorite ones of all time.

And I second Edna and Harvey when it comes to difficulty.

The Tex Murphy games, especially Pandora Directive have lots of difficult and fun challenges as well.

Finally, Simon the Sorcerer 3D - long, tough, visually ugly, but has some really interesting puzzles. Few people made through it I believe.

The puzzles were indeed interesting, the humour was good, but the entire game was so buggy that it's often game-breaking bugs and crashes that made sure few people finished the game.
It was in my case...

@Adventurere No.1:

Sorry if I came across as too harsh. Just wondering aloud here and I think I understand better now what you are looking for.

Just to suggest something different:
Do you play mainly or exclusively adventure games?
Do you need modern graphics and presentation?
Because there are a lot of interesting hybrids out there, like Omikron, Outcast or Quest for Glory. I know that wasn't your question and perhaps you'll hate them or already know them but instead of "more of the same" a slight change in game mechanics might perhaps do the trick.
(Those are old examples because I'm old and went down the "more of the same" road for the last couple of years. ;) )

If you enjoy Mystesque games and want the difficulty level of Riven the RHEM games (four so far) are highly recommended. Fantastic puzzle design. Very hard but completely fair and logic. Some of the best games out there, period.

THANKS for your nice feelings , no worries friend :D
I am a man of JUST point and click :)

I think Journey to the Center of the World also falls in the 'pretty hard' category due to some puzzles that can only be solved by immense patience and trial and error. If you're into that kind of thing. Apart from those puzzles I liked the game though.

I really enjoyed Simon the Sorcerer 3D, in fact, I finished it yesterday (for the second time) all by myself and then started it over again. After I finished it, I was thinking that even if a person had a walkthrough, this game would take two months and without a walkthrough, I know it would take me at least 1/2 year. It is so hard. Also very very buggy. But, for me it was one of those games that I had to finish. The first time I played I used many saved games from people, but now that I know what I am doing better, I am able to do the hard scenes... however, it still takes a long time. For me, that was the hardest game I have ever played.

Black Dahlia and if you can find it anywhere, Rama by Sierra. God that game drove me friggin' nut's to the point I actually threw my keyboard across the room. Lighthouse, another oldie is just as frustratingly difficult!