Color of Murder discussion (game and hint system)
 

Any pros &/or cons ?

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a built in dynamic hint system in any previous Quest/Adventure and if you haven't already done so, i’s maybe worth while playing tCoM just to experience the potentialities of that innovation.

Actually it is not a complete innovation. The last 3 ("old") brilliant Tex Murphy games had an excellent built in hint system.
But this one is just as good and probably better!

I enjoy these games very much and thought the hint system was a welcome addition. Perhaps if the places were listed "one to a page", as it were, it would give away less as seeing three places listed at a glance is so easy to do. I like the way the UHS hint system does this, although I'm sure it's a lot more work. Also, a question as the first clue such as "I wonder where the petroglyphs are?" could help keep the immersion and let the player make the connection that it's time to visit Stina. Otherwise, nice job. It reminded me of the hint system in Return to Zork right down to the odd font on lined paper!

You might want to see my "mini review" in the "Therapy" thread.

I am not sure but I think Myst IV: Revelation had a built in hint [I could be wrong about which Myst it was].

Thanks for pointing me to the mini-review and the interesting comments in the "Therapy" thread.
http://www.adventuregamers.com/forum...ad.php?t=23553

O, don't torture me! I just ordered the game yesterday! :frusty::frusty:

Enjoy ! :7

Thnx, I'm sure I will!

I hear Keepsake as a hint system, although I haven't seen it. The system in Colour of Murder is really rather direct...not hints, but virtual solutions. But it is accurate, helpful, and fun. Why? Because there are a ton of red herrings in the game, and just when you "think" you need help and go to the hint system, you realize that you've been focusing on the forest not the trees. I said "doh!" many times during that game, but resisted heartily to using the hint system.

How does the hint system work in this game?

I can think of many games that include hint systems (some I'd even call dynamic ;)), but since I haven't played this one I'm not sure how it compares.

~~f ov ~~

Hehehe ! :D
Buy it and see --- it's very cheap (on BigFish, for those who use it, much cheaper stil). I think that JA+ shop are selling it also ?

I'd love to see yyour pros and cons (it entailed a heck of a lot of extra work)!:shifty:

I'm not going to buy a game just to see how the hint system is, sorry.

Try it. You'll like it! A very good game.

Myst Masterpiece had a hint system, which made it possible for my eight year old nephew to play. It has three levels of hints for the location you are in with the last a dead giveaway.

There are a ton of adventure games with a built in hint system.

What's so "Dynamic" about this one or is just maketing BS as usual.

~~ Dale ~~

I didn't say to buy it JUST for the hint system.
Even without t, it is IMO,.a good game and VERY well worth the cheap price ~!

Can I take it from this that you were involved in this project somehow?

I like the idea of an in-game system (though as you and others have said, other games have had them before). Nothing breaks the immersion more than having to leave a game to seek help from an external source. Alas, I have a long list of games waiting to be played already but I'll bear it in mind.

Yes I was the tester from the earliest stages till the final beta... also the "Creative Consultant",
Afterwards I posted a walkthrough !

Why do you need a walkthrough if it has such a Dynamic hint system.

Hi Lucien21,

the system is dynamic for a very simple reason. The game itself is non-linear which means you don't have to follow a straight "corridor" line of solution (think for example Sherlock Holmes and the Rose Tattoo). The in-game hint system keeps track of your progression and is able to provide you "solvable" goals for the moment. Every goal consists of several "sub-goals" needed to complete the goals. There are some slight differenciation as of some goals aren't ordered (you can make subgoals in any order) some are ordered (you need to follow each steps sequentially). The system takes care of this all and thus you always see in the diary only the currently achievable goals and in those goals only currently achievable sub-goals regardles of your in-game position. While the hints themselves are quite give-away, you never see any ahead-spoiler which happens when you for example skim through walkthrough and accidentally read too-much. You can choose how much want you the game to give you nudge (you don't have to display subgoals).

I of course didn't want to go all technical, but you asked directly where's the non-linearity and so I felt I'd reply. :)

Anyway, I agree with some of the posters in there, my hint system is just a gimmick on top of a really nice game and I think that you should get it because of the game itself (with really nice story and such) and not because you'd see a hint system. As a sidenote, I wouldn't design such system for majority of adventure games because Colour of Murder is quite specific in the level of non-linearity. Usually you would be better off with some sort of UHS structure, but in CoM you sometimes can complete certain goals in really different gameplay time which makes it somewhat hard to track why exactly were you stuck.

Hope this helps,
JK

Intro to the walkthrough :-
Len Green.
To answer the question:-
**** Some players don't need or want any hints or help in games.
**** Others want a small push here and there,...often when they are stuck merely where to look next!
They don't want to lose immersion in the game to look for a walkthrough or a UHS File or whatever.
The built in Hints gives them all they need without leaving the game.
**** Some find the hints inadequate for their needs. e.g. the Hits might say "go to the red coloured water in the industrial park" and no more.
But that industrial park is large and quire ramified and one can spend a long time looking for that red water. Some players haven’t got the time or patience or interest to explore for a ½ hour or more,
The walkthrough gives much more precise instructions as to how to find the place and help with any problems on the way etc.
**** Finally there are players for whom both the built-in hints and the walkthrough are inadequate,
Just look at GameBoomers Hint Forum for example, or my emails !!

I'm about halfway through the game. In addition to really enjoing the game, I think it's my favourite hint system I've ever come across. Generally I resort to hints because I am stuck and I don't know what to do next. With COM I can see what the next location is and no more, as long as I know I am in the right place, I am usually content to explore until I figure out what I am supposed to do there. When all you need is a nudge in the right direction even UHS can be too much, so I appreciate the hint system in this game.
I also enjoy the non-linearity of this game. In reminds me of Barrow Hill in the way that it's very difficult to get truly stuck - you can have several things on the go at the same time and hopefully in the course of solving your other problems you will either come across the solution to the stickiest one, or come up with a few more problems to keep you occupied while you try to figure it out. I haven't played any of the Carol Reed games before, but this thread intrigued me and I have to say I am enjoying myself quite a bit. The mystery is interesting and I am looking forward to seeing how it all resolves.

I'm in a perfect position, since I can unconditionally praise some aspects in my own game, without feeling in the least bit embarrassed about it. The hint system is wonderful. But it wasn't implemented by itself, or mainly by me!

That some kind of hint system would be included in the game was decided quite early in the process. I had extensive discussions with the producer about this and was quite persistent in that the hint system should follow the player’s steps, rather than just being an in game walkthrough, or simply point the player to certain "goals" in each specific location.

I wouldn't be able to program such a thing, nor would I have the time. So we decided to get some outside help.

When the first playable version of the game was finished, a person who had been connected to the project got cold feet. This was understandable, since it was a decidedly nonlinear game, and the implementation of such a system would put both programming and logical skills to their severest tests, and would require quite a lot of guts, since time was very short.

In came Jan Kavan (metamorphium in this forum), and creator of Ghost in the Sheet and J.U.L.I.A.

I've had some (very pleasant) dealings with Jan before. I knew that he was an excellent programmer, but would he be able to pull this off in such a short time?

The answer was a clear and resounding YES.

We had no walkthrough for the game, no script other than in Swedish, and I had never made any graphical schemes of the actions and chronology in the games.

After playing the game for less than a week, Jan came up with this masterpiece.

I still don't understand it myself, but that’s not the point. It was the skeleton for the hint system. The hints were written by our producer and me, but the triggers for the appearance and disappearance of each and every hint, and the location related structure were all Jan's work. After thorough testings by our producer and his testing team, and numerous tweakings and rewrites by myself and Len Green, the structure itself only suffered from the occasional bug and one or two misunderstandings, all of which were fixed in no time by Jan.

Everyone may not like the system (even though I still haven't heard from a single player that doesn't), and some people don't even like hints implemented in games. But this is the hint system that I always wanted to see in a game, but never thought I would.

The hint system has piqued my interest in this game, so I'll probably give it a shot.

Anyone played 'The Colour of Murder' yet?
 

I've read member queries about other games here but none about The Colour of Murder.

Anybody here played it? If so, what's your opinion?

I played it but never playing another one of the Carole reed games i cannot compare them but i thought that game was pretty good. I hated the voice acting, so cheesy and you can tell they are just reading lines. The story is pretty good nothing mind blowingly original but ok, the puzzles are good. One of the best things in my opinion is the use of real environments and not CGI or animation they are all real places and such which is neat in my opinion. If the voice acting would of been better i would of gave it a 4/5 but since its not i give it a 3.

There are a couple other threads here about this game. Here's one:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/forum...ad.php?t=23563

It's a marvelous, relaxing, satisfying game that doesn't cheat you, trick, or disappoint you. The puzzles are good, thoughtful, with plenty of red herrings. If you've never played one of these games, grab a nice relaxing beverage, some comfort munchies, and enjoy.

I merged a couple of the threads so we don't have too many floating around. Feel free to discuss the game here, just make sure you use spoiler tags if needed. :)

Hi :-
I was looking for that newer thread.
Now I've found it ! :)

To Len Green:

I've bought the Colour of Murder and have been playing it for a while, but I'm having a specific problem with things I can't find, and the in-game hint system isn't any help in this case, since it only tells me to find those things but not saying where.

Could you please consider writing a complete walkthrough for the entire game, in the same style as your demo walkthrough (and the one for Time Stand Still)? I'd really appreciate that, since I can't get any further until I find certain things.

Alternatively - may I ask you for help to find something specific? Or would that be too spoilerish?

(In another thread I saw a link posted for a walkthrough, but that link didn't work. All I've found is the demo walkthrough.)

A pleasure.

http://www.mdna-games.com/Colour/CoM_wt/CoM_wt.htm

AND Here :-

http://www.justadventure.com/Walkthr...~20_11_08.shtm

If you have any specific problem. my email address is on bot. Please mark as "Colour of Murder" or it may get deleted with spam !

I just finished the game. With every new game I seem to become a bigger fan of the Carol Reed games. Thw fact that I shot almost the same picture as in the game during my pilgrimage to Norrkoping had only a little to do with it. I just love the scenes and the slow, unhurried gameplay. I spend a lot of time just walking around on every spot, looking at things that have nothing to do with the game, and so move on slowly. I found this game better than the previous one in the sense that there was less needless walking around here, and looping through hoops to get simple things done. I needed the hint system only a few times, but I found that it was too easy to reach so I looked in Carols notebook more often than I should have. That is about the only complaint I have about it. Maybe you could take a look at Myst IV to get ideas about how to make the hint system less accessible. But I must say, the hint system worked perfectly for me. It pushed me in the right direction, often without really telling me what to do. Very nice. I hope we will see more of it in the future!

I am just starting this game and love it.
I have replayed both East Side Story and Hope Springs Eternal.
I was pleased to see the addition of the notebook as I was frequently floundering in the other two games and was loath to use a walk through.
Just wandering around in the scenes is very enjoyable...
I too hope that MDNA produces more of such high quality games!
:)