View Single Post
Old 09-06-2009, 02:48 PM   #44
Kurufinwe
Senior Member
 
Kurufinwe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 3,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 View Post
Well, my interpretation is that...

Spoiler:
The hilt (gold) became the Talisman and that the blade of the sword, or part of it, was reforged into the Ritter's knife. I think it's safe to assume that the hilt became the Talisman because of what Jesus says about 'carrying the gold', given that the Ritter's knife isn't made of gold but has an hilt of dark leather (as depicted in The Beast Within) or some other dark material.

At the end, it is a combination of Talisman and Knife that kills Asmodeus or, rather, that particular manifestation of Asmodeus as the Temple Guardian evoked by Solomon. Plus, judging by what Grace says over the radio, the throat is a sensible spot no matter what, and I always thought that it wasn't a particular power of the knife to kill Asmodeus, rather than the knowledge that the demon has a very clear weakness.
The more I think about it, the more I think you're right... and the more I think the ending was confusing.


Quote:
I'm not familiar with Frank Herbert's work, unfortunately, despite a friend of mine constantly trying to get me reading the Dune books. However, Jane's story always seemed to me quite clever and fascinating (even if not as much as her take on Ludwig II, Wagner and lycanthropy, I must add).
You have to read Dune. If you only read one science-fiction book in your life, it should be this one. Book 4 (The God Emperor) is a fascinating as well. 2&3 tend to go a bit too much into pseudo-philosophical hogwash for my taste, and 5&6 are eminently-readable but completely unnecessary adventure books. (And don't get me started on the pre/sequels written by Herbert's son.) Anyway, read Dune. And you probably won't fail to notice the similarities between Herbert's Kwisatz Haderach and Jensen's Kenosh Kania (even the words are similar!).


Quote:
Moreover, I understand that you're cranky for Grail stories, and I'd like to know - even if it is off-topic - what do you think of Christy Marx's takes on the Grail in Conquests of Camelot, since her view and Jane's shared a certain similarity
Ooh, a mod inviting me to derail a thread! That's a chance I'm not gonna miss!

I wrote about it at length in this thread. I'm now not really happy with what I wrote there (too messy, far too grandiloquent, and a bit whiny to boot), but I'll just sum up my main idea here: the strength of all the grail stories lies precisely in the grail itself. On the intriguing, odd-sound word, and on the simple thematic power of the cup-that-grants-life. And Christy Marx missed that and deprived herself of all the powerful baggage that comes with the grail.

(somewhat longer version below)

There are two main sides to the grail in the medieval stories: the grail as the ultimate quest object; and the Grail as the Absolute (especially in the Vulgate Cycle), that is as that-which-explains-everything and that-which-commands-total-submission (as such, I think that the Lancelot-Grail remains to this day the most pertinent text ever written on, well, basically totalitarianism (I'm trying to be extremely brief here, I don't want to derail this thread too much). Whatever aspect you choose to focus on, the central theme is always that the grail is at the heart of the story. That, I believe, is why the grail stories are so powerful: precisely because that mythical cup with an intriguing name draws all the focus lines to itself.

And that, I feel, is what Christy Marx missed by focussing on her new-agey "Goddess" instead and reducing the grail to a symbol of that goddess. Don't get me wrong, I mostly like CoC (apart from those annoying fights). I just think it's a bit of a thematic mess that's not half as powerful as it could have been. Ultimately, I believe Christy Marx might have bitten more than she could chew with that game, at least at the time she made it.


Still, I like Christy Marx's take on the grail about a hundred times better than the whole 'The grail is a code word for a giant conspiracy' stuff that we had in GK3 (which thankfully didn't really make more than a passing reference to the grail in the entire game).
Kurufinwe is offline