[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Boysie

It seems, more often than enough, people have this misconception that atheists don't have morals or can't believe in things. (And often the misconception that atheists want to force their atheism on other people.)

These [dogmatically] religious people, whether fundamentalist or moderate, are no less susceptible to lapses in healthy morality than atheists or anyone else. The difference is that atheists and other non-religious individuals don't handle these moral lapses by cowering behind some imaginary entity or unchallenged concept: "Satan made me do it", "I was weak in the moment and I beg for God's forgivness", etc.

That people like pastor Ted Haggard and those who claimed to have been 'cured' of their homosexuality through God and prayer indicates a serious disconnection between one's faith and calling a spade a spade.

On top of that, there's this habit of theists to suddenly distance themselves from things they don't like about their religion. (Which I'd basically endorse, if it wouldn't too often effectively - unwittingly - serve to propagate that very religion as whole thing.)

That's why I pointed out the very dangerous hypocrisy of religious moderates...

Originally Posted by Trep

This prompted me think on how I feel about religious moderates. I think that they're practically even worse than the fundamentalists and the current trend of pushing for interfaith dialogue, I think, can't work in the long run.

Religious moderates refuse to allow their beliefs to be questioned, it's taboo to challenge them. Why is that? This refusal pretty much applies to all belief systems, but I'll focus on Muslim beliefs as an example. Moderate Muslims purport to follow the Koran faithfully and without any kind of public zealotry. In fact they go out of their way to distance themselves from their fundamentalist kin, condemning their terrorizing acts, violent behaviour, and murderous ways.

But look into it closer. The Koran practically brims with proclamations on jihad and martyrdom*. If you are a Muslim you are required by your god to literally follow the 'wisdom' in this book. You MUST follow it unquestioningly. Anyone and everyone not doing so is an infidel, therefore you must destroy them. For your succesful effort, for your self sacrifice, you will be forever and ever rewarded in heaven with 72 virgins and other eternal delights. Now, you tell me who are the most faithful ones. Is it the moderates, who passively worship Islam and cherry pick from the Koran? Or is it the men who followed - perfectly and precisely - the book's teachings, and magnificently wiped out the World Trade Center and 'successfully' annihilated over 3000 infidels?

In the end, in the long run, I think the most frightening of the two are the moderates, behind whom the actual fundementalists can safely hide. And they can hide in luxury precisely because the moderates refuse to let us challenge their beliefs, unflinchingly, and time and time again, claiming that God is untouchable so back off.


* Historically those passages in the Koran were written millenia ago, of course, when there were very bloody, very violent religious wars between various factions split from the original tribe. Again I emphasize that these ideas remained fundamentally unchanged and unchallenged ever since. We're talking about present day terrorism and martyrdom based on principles from thousands of years ago, never taking into account the progress that we, as civilizations and as societies, have made since.