[Jackal]

Disclaimer: This post was written before the recent influx of new posts.

Originally Posted by BoyToy

"Conclusions" is exactly those ideas (guidelines) you proposed in your inital post of this very thread.

These aren't conclusions of anything. They are simply observations.

So why did you choose to assume exactly that kind of stuff? If you don't understand what I meant, then why don't you ask first?
The fact you choose to draw all those negative conclusions speaks for itself.

No, I didn't really need to assume. It was plainly evident. I should have chosen a better word.

If you get criticised, try to think about it, and deal with it.

So, yet another insinuation that enough thought isn't put into any aspect of this. Since you know nothing of the due consideration given to each and every one of these issues, including the anticipated objections which have been predictably brought up, such comments are simply unwarranted.

Let me, for once, repeat something that has been said before in this thread: There is a difference between not-understanding and disagreeing.
You don't seem to understand that.

No, BoyToy. I understand this difference extremely well. Which is why I'm waiting for the vocal objectors to show an actual understanding of this entire issue. I get that you disagree, and that's absolutely fine, and even explaining your reasons why you think so is fine. But most of these arguments do NOT show that understanding, and are just more rationalization for disagreement. Again, whether by lines taken out of context, issues isolated, whatever. If your disagreement is obscuring the fact that you understand, then there's no distinction at all.

(And on top of that, I did explicitly say that I do understand your issue, in the very first line of my posting! Maybe I didn't understand every bit exactly the way you meant it. But you can rest assured I got the gist of it.)

And yet you don't seem to understand the fundamental nature of it. But fine, if you tell me that you understand this entire exercise is a very simple call for people to show some consideration of others and be mindful that the forum doesn't become overrun by the issues highlighted, I'll believe you. But any arguments that go beyond that will defy that claim.

What I really don't understand, and what makes me angry, is the subtle malignity with which you tend to react to criticism. (And please forgive me, that I am acting similar now, as I don't see a point it trying to hide the emotions I now have.)
Are you really such a bigheaded stubborn hypocrit?

Criticism, no. Erroneous accusations, fallacious arguments, repetitive talking points, etc. by people seeking to endlessly promote their views, yes. If indeed it's subtle "malignity", then I'm being largely successful at stifling my outright frustration and annoyance. I also see no point in hiding my own emotions as if I'm a drone, and by the time it's noticeable, the recipients are anything but innocent victims.

Bigheaded? Sometimes. Stubborn? Most certainly. Hypocrite, no. If there's a relevant point in the character evaluation, I'm missing it.

I have no reason to doubt this. And if you spend your whole life thinking about a particulary issue, this doesn't mean that you will automatically come up with the right solution.

Obviously. Since I was responding to your assumption that we hadn't "appropriately considered" a point, your argument above has nothing to do with the original exchange.

Don't you see? You are so busy justifying yourself, that you tend to not reflect what's being said anymore.

Not a single point has been raised here that wasn't ALREADY carefully considered long before the post went up in the first place. Not one. What you call "justification" is really just "explanation". I'm just tired of repeating it, and if I sound frustrated in doing it, I can live with that. From the looks of things, I'm not the only one frustrated by it, either.

So the problem still is (and I'd assume you are aware of that) that reasonable balance is a term like wax.

Of course. Which is why we can't enforce it or even effectively moderate it. But even a variance in people's understanding of "balance" would be a lot closer to something mutually acceptable than what we have now. Now people know the goal, they know the areas of imbalance, and at least everyone is moving more or less in the same direction. That would not have happened without some kind of directive.

Do I get you right now, that you actually don't mean it as an absolute 'no-no'? (That would change your initial statement a lot!)

Nothing listed is an "absolute" no-no. There are all kinds of disclaimers throughout the original post to indicate that. That's why I specifically requested people not to isolate issues or take them out of context.

And for the record, this sort of "misunderstanding" is exactly why I keep saying that some people don't understand the fundamental nature of this exercise. Everyone that DOES understand seems to realize we're not becoming at all draconian.

My theory is, that it is because there simply aren't enough 'interesting' new topics coming up.

And that would be the exact same theory my original post already supported:

Originally Posted by guideline post

Really it's up to you forumites to make this work. We can't moderate thoughtfulness, we can't dictate common sense, we can't police discretion. We can only ask that you be respectful of those outside your inner circle, and be mindful of the goals of the forum. To those who have fallen away from Chit Chat because of less desirable changes over time, now's the time for you to make contributions as well. Start a thread, post your opinion, get involved again. If we can get moving in more or less the same direction again, it'll take everyone to accomplish it.

Again, you see why I say that these arguments aren't showing an understanding? When the objections raised have already been taken into account and addressed, there's really no other recourse but for me to tell people they haven't understood. I don't expect them to like hearing it, but I won't pretend otherwise.

But you could be wrong, too. So please stop discrediting the people, who disagree your opinion, with polemic allegations like they wouldn't understand your opinions. Comprehend?

See above.