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What is more important, the puzzles or the story?
@jdawg
Survival horror mechanic and term was coined by mikami, people started using the term for every game,but Mikami’s idea and concept was different
QTE was term coined by Yu Suzuki, same term and mechanic used here and elsewhere for gow or TTG, in same fashion, its not same as Dlair
Its like saying Alone in the Dark was survival horror, no Mikami invented the term and his nuance in gamedesign(scarceammo) was different
MGSV copied multi player that was my point,my point was Devs copy gameplay
not just story, thanks for accepting that, they copy it because it left impression on game
designers, you were saying people remember Chronotrigger types story centric only,false
And yes Kojima wanted to copy gta3 and MGSV is a ripoff of Skyrim and GTAV openworld gamedesign, there is a reason why he removed cutscenes too
Popularity made Konami copy RE
W3 copied Skyrim
Last of us guys said they took RE4 gameplay and ICO themes as inspiration
So there you go, gamers dont remember games for Story only , gameplay matters
By saying that you are writing off entire Arcade games and home consoles ver of them
let alone games like RE or DS
Also if you look at AGs, PnC have been the driving force in 90s, again gameplay
All them Sierra and Lucas could have opted FMV choose your own adventure gamedesign or Dragonlair
They didn’t
@darthmaul
Agree, with your last sentence, but you used the term always earlier, that i wont agree with
Some commercial hit games are also critical hits, RE to RedDead to Tlou and now Doom/Inside/Witness
It’s really not so much about the story itself, but about the world and the characters in it. I think games are just as good at being able to create worlds as any other medium, but only games allow you to interact with those worlds, which makes for a very different experience.
This, games can do everything what other mediums can but also are interactive
Hey you can put any book in game like in Skyrim
And you can make Movies like PC game Ripper
You are doing the same stuff, but now you interact and put more content apart from it
Ok i got bored by this amazing book i am reading in game, now to do a side quest
Games by definition have upper hand, it can assimilate all other mediums yet can do more on top of that
You can take best hollywood film and put in game with subtle interactivity
You can put any book in the game to read
But you cannot replicate LastGuardian in any other medium, that is just one example
Its like saying Alone in the Dark was survival horror, no Mikami invented the term and his nuance in gamedesign(scarceammo) was different
Please. Just because someone else coined the name afterwards doesn’t make Alone in the Dark (quite probably the game that best defined the term as well as one of the very first examples) anything other than survival horror.
And no matter what Mikami intended with the term, it’s how it’s being used now that counts. So Alone in the Dark IS survival horror, and one of the best examples of it.
Also, the term “survival horror” now IS being used in the sense that scarce resources and meticulous planning are important to the gameplay. If you have ample ammo (like in the later Resident Evil games - RE4, 5 and 6 in particular), then it’s action horror.
Edit: even TV Tropes mentions Alone in the Dark as Trope Maker, while the first Resident Evil is the Trope Namer and Codifier.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Just because someone else coined the name afterwards doesn’t make Alone in the Dark (quite probably the game that best defined the term as well as one of the very first examples) anything other than survival horror.
No find me a source where the term was used for AitD before RE(96), Mikami was father no way how you cut it, if you dont want to give due credit thats another issue
it’s how it’s being used now that counts
No, it doesnt count as it it looses the essence of game mechanic for hardcore audience, who finish Evilwithin in Akumu mode, ofcourse for rest
Thats why he made Evilwithin to begin with,back to roots, because Outlast/Amnesia type call themselves survivalhorror too(in that sense Clocktower came first 
), and RE series became too action heavy to have survival essence
Also, the term “survival horror” now IS being used in the sense that scarce resources and meticulous planning are important to the gameplay. If you have ample ammo (like in the later Resident Evil games - RE4, 5 and 6 in particular), then it’s action horror
Yes i never checked Evilwithin Making of vids
Read above
even TV Tropes mentions Alone in the Dark as Trope Maker, while the first Resident Evil is the Trope Namer and Codifier
RE was made as successor of Sweethome(TV trope and others are oblivious to it), and yes that had all micromanagement and scarce resources before AiTD
Mikami looked at AiTD as work around of technical limitations not gamedesign
Original RE was first person, more like Doom+Sweethome hence RE7 back to roots
Please
Its important, check yourself if you can answer this
http://www.howtogeek.com/trivia/who-coined-the-term-cyberpunk/
I did it right, because it matters to me despite the global saturation
like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…
Just hit me why you are using Layton avatar
Was it puzzles or story or both?
And do you really contribute Layton’s success on story
nomadsoul is always right.
We are always wrong.
nomadsoul is always right.
We are always wrong.
No find me a source where the term was used for AitD before RE(96), Mikami was father no way how you cut it, if you dont want to give due credit thats another issue
Like I said: just because the term was coined AFTERWARDS (i.e. no sources before Resident Evil, which was the trope namer), does NOT make Alone in the Dark anything other than a survival horror game. And you are NOT telling me that Mikumi wasn’t inspired somewhat by Alone in the Dark to make the first Resident Evil game, even if he does call it a “workaround of technical limitations” (which is frankly a very dismissive thing to say, but you seem to be a fan of that).
No, it doesnt count as it it looses the essence of game mechanic for hardcore audience, who finish Evilwithin in Akumu mode, ofcourse for rest
Did you read what I said the current definition was? “Lack of resources”. Does that not count as a game mechanic that’s DIFFERENT from what a lot of action horror games incorrectly labeled as survival horror do?
Thats why he made Evilwithin to begin with,back to roots, because Outlast/Amnesia type call themselves survivalhorror too(in that sense Clocktower came first
Outlast and Amnesia ARE survival horror, and Clocktower too.
RE was made as successor of Sweethome(TV trope and others are oblivious to it), and yes that had all micromanagement and scarce resources before AiTD
Mikami looked at AiTD as work around of technical limitations not gamedesign
Original RE was first person, more like Doom+Sweethome hence RE7 back to roots
If everyone is oblivious to Sweethome, then that would make it an Ur example if it was first. It’s the one that actually gets the principle noticed that becomes the trope maker (Alone in the Dark). And it’s the one that popularizes it that becomes the trope codifier (Resident Evil).
Its important, check yourself if you can answer this
http://www.howtogeek.com/trivia/who-coined-the-term-cyberpunk/
I did it right, because it matters to me despite the global saturation
Yeah, I got it right. Not that that is important at all. Who coined the term is ultimately irrelevant. What the term has come to mean is what becomes important.
Or do you still use the word “gay” to mean “cheerful, merry, lively”?
Also, we should be ending this line of conversation as it’s got nothing to do with the thread topic of puzzles vs. story.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
Mikumi wasn’t inspired somewhat by Alone in the Dark to make the first Resident Evil game
Never heard about Mikumi??
But i guess Mukimi is trope codifier
I rest my case
I rest my case
Congratulations, you pointed out a typo. That sure makes you win the argument… 
As for the actual thread topic, I haven’t really replied yet.
For me it’s a mixture of both. The story is usually what piques the interest and what draws me to it (and what keeps me going throughout). But the puzzles are usually what make the game actually fun.
To me, one can go without the other, but it’s usually a mixture of both that gets games to excel.
The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka
I think a game that exemplifies the way to combine story and puzzle is Still Life. To me, a vastly underrated game. There are some that will say that you had to have played Post Mortem first in order to understand to total story. I would say it couldn’t hurt, but is not neccessary.
For whom the games toll,
they toll for thee.
like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…
Just hit me why you are using Layton avatar
Was it puzzles or story or both?
And do you really contribute Layton’s success on story
nope just like the avatar yawn, the stuff folks say when they run out of arguments
@jdawg
Survival horror mechanic and term was coined by mikami, people started using the term for every game,but Mikami’s idea and concept was different
QTE was term coined by Yu Suzuki, same term and mechanic used here and elsewhere for gow or TTG, in same fashion, its not same as Dlair
Its like saying Alone in the Dark was survival horror, no Mikami invented the term and his nuance in gamedesign(scarceammo) was differentMGSV copied multi player that was my point,my point was Devs copy gameplay
not just story, thanks for accepting that, they copy it because it left impression on game
designers, you were saying people remember Chronotrigger types story centric only,false
And yes Kojima wanted to copy gta3 and MGSV is a ripoff of Skyrim and GTAV openworld gamedesign, there is a reason why he removed cutscenes too
Popularity made Konami copy RE
W3 copied Skyrim
Last of us guys said they took RE4 gameplay and ICO themes as inspiration
So there you go, gamers dont remember games for Story only , gameplay matters
By saying that you are writing off entire Arcade games and home consoles ver of them
let alone games like RE or DSAlso if you look at AGs, PnC have been the driving force in 90s, again gameplay
All them Sierra and Lucas could have opted FMV choose your own adventure gamedesign or Dragonlair
They didn’t@darthmaul
Agree, with your last sentence, but you used the term always earlier, that i wont agree with
Some commercial hit games are also critical hits, RE to RedDead to Tlou and now Doom/Inside/Witness
you said shenmue invented qte you were wrong as usual. you can rename a butterfinger too its still a butterfinger. who cares who coined the term qte, qte in one form or another has been around….
I guess it depends, for me. For the Gabriel Knight games, I loved the story and the puzzles were just part of it. But, for the Simon the Sorcerer games, I can’t even tell you what the basic part of the story was, but, I loved the game just because of the puzzles. so, I guess for me, if the story is so good that I want to learn more, the puzzles lose their importance, but if the puzzles are so good, I just want to keep figuring out on how to solve them.
I guess it depends, for me. For the Gabriel Knight games, I loved the story and the puzzles were just part of it. But, for the Simon the Sorcerer games, I can’t even tell you what the basic part of the story was, but, I loved the game just because of the puzzles. so, I guess for me, if the story is so good that I want to learn more, the puzzles lose their importance, but if the puzzles are so good, I just want to keep figuring out on how to solve them.
here is a good question to get back on topic which of those do you play more, bc a puzzle can only be solved once after that the mystery is gone. for instance I know every puzzle of full throttle like the back of my hand, can even kick the crack with ben the first time to open the secret door, but what keeps me coming back is the story characters and the music def the music. So do you go back more to gabriel knight or simon, just curious.
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