Adventure Gamers - Forums

TimovieMan - 12 January 2017 04:30 PM

Jdawg445 - 12 January 2017 03:43 PM

Not to keep harping on grim fandango, but in another thread it was pointed out that in a knockout contest it won for the best adventure game of all time on this site, can anyone really say it was bc of gameplay over story. Once again 95 percent of gamers all hated the tank controls and camera angles with players constantly running into walls, the inventory system was cumbersome having to scroll through 20 items every time just to get to the one you wanted and even at release the game had some serious bugs. Of all the remastered games out there, this is the one that needed to be re-done the most, just so it could work at all on most modern computers. So the reason it was voted number 1 was bc of the characters and story and setting.

I never encountered any bugs in the game, and I bought it on release day. I never had any trouble getting it to run on newer systems (thanks to a fan-made installer that was easily available online).
I also never had any issues with the tank controls, especially if you changed the settings so they weren’t camera angle-dependant. The inventory scrolling wasn’t as inconvenient as you say because you never had more than 10 items in your inventory.

I voted for Grim Fandango in a lot of the battles because it’s one of my favourite games of all time, and yes, story and setting have a lot to do with that (as well as the great characters and wonderful dialogue), but the beautiful graphics (this is one of the only games with blocky 3D characters where that doesn’t hurt the game - it even fits the papier-mâché inspiration) and gorgeous music help as well.
But what probably is the most decisive in my opinion of the game is the entire Year Two section in Rubacava. Puzzle-wise that’s the best-designed piece of game I’ve ever played. That entire section is imo the pinnacle of adventure gaming.

You cut a few corners with your conclusion that story and setting are the only reasons this game won, imo.

the great character and wonderful dialogue are all part of the story component, and I did have install problems all those yrs ago and actually was the only lucas arts game to ever give me problems. and I hated the tank controls and I must have not been alone bc they made a pt to add in point and click to the remaster of the game. I was watching a lets play of it recently and the guy ran into the wall at least 10 times, it was funny and endearing lol. As far as the inventory goes they tried to fix a problem that was not there. I thought the puzzles were fine but none never really stood out to me in the whole game. I agree Rubacava is the best part of the game, not bc of the puzzles but bc of the music, set design, atmosphere, dialogue, characters and that is also where the story was the strongest in the whole game by far at least to me.

Jdawg445 - 12 January 2017 03:43 PM

Now there are exceptions to every rule as dark souls is 90 percent about the gameplay and is talked about, but the most part videogames are remembered fondly bc of the story especially in the adventure game genre

Not just darksouls

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

And people discuss these as much online on Party chat, teamplay or on forums or lets play, as story based games on Forums
Now Gaming is exploded socially anyway
And games like Overwatch or top steam sellers are not just remembered these gamers grind them 24/7, its part of their life
Again we have new teens that spend hours to find matching armour in Destiny, a game with shoddy story
So i wont agree with remembered part

I love VG stories, but after PS2 era, things are downhill in all genres

Yet Dark Souls wouldn’t have been nearly as fun without that 10 percent of storytelling, wether it’s through dialogue or its environments.

nomadsoul - 12 January 2017 05:20 PM

Jdawg445 - 12 January 2017 03:43 PM

Now there are exceptions to every rule as dark souls is 90 percent about the gameplay and is talked about, but the most part videogames are remembered fondly bc of the story especially in the adventure game genre

Not just darksouls

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

And people discuss these as much online on Party chat, teamplay or on forums or lets play, as story based games on Forums
Now Gaming is exploded socially anyway
And games like Overwatch or top steam sellers are not just remembered these gamers grind them 24/7, its part of their life
Again we have new teens that spend hours to find matching armour in Destiny, a game with shoddy story
So i wont agree with remembered part

I love VG stories, but after PS2 era, things are downhill in all genres

I’m just saying earlier you bring up a game like witness which is a puzzle game with basically no story and how it is winning Game of the Year Awards and to be honestly that doesnt really impressed me. To me the true test is do Gamers still talk about that game 5 10 15 years later. like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…

in the other thread we were talking about the last of us which has been voted as one the best PS3 games of all time. as most of you probably know the first trailer for The Last of Us 2 came out and contained no gameplay, just showed the main characters, mood, and setting of the game. I watched reaction videos of gamers watching the trailer;grown men and women were crying because they are so in love with the story of the game. That says something

Jdawg445 - 13 January 2017 02:32 AM

I’m just saying earlier you bring up a game like witness which is a puzzle game with basically no story and how it is winning Game of the Year Awards and to be honestly that doesnt really impressed me. To me the true test is do Gamers still talk about that game 5 10 15 years later. like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…

in the other thread we were talking about the last of us which has been voted as one the best PS3 games of all time. as most of you probably know the first trailer for The Last of Us 2 came out and contained no gameplay, just showed the main characters, mood, and setting of the game. I watched reaction videos of gamers watching the trailer;grown men and women were crying because they are so in love with the story of the game. That says something

The Witness has something far more important than a story: it has a meaning. Something that a vast number of story-based games lack.

darthmaul - 12 January 2017 01:17 PM

Detective Mosely - 11 January 2017 02:00 PM

Exactly.  That seems to be a factor that a lot of people miss whenever they say something like “If you want a good story read a book.”  I enjoy other forms of fiction too, but it’s a different experience entirely.

There’s something unique about being immersed in a world that you enjoy the story and characters of, and being able to interact with those characters and that world.  That feeling really can’t be replicated in any other medium than games.

I rarely get “immersed” in video game worlds.  The medium is not great for story telling on its own.  For a pure story experience, tv or books are 10,000x better mediums.  Their stories are way more complex and have more depth.  For me to play something on PC, it needs to have a game to it.

It’s really not so much about the story itself, but about the world and the characters in it.  I think games are just as good at being able to create worlds as any other medium, but only games allow you to interact with those worlds, which makes for a very different experience.

Jdawg445 - 13 January 2017 02:32 AM

1)I’m just saying earlier you bring up a game like witness which is a puzzle game with basically no story and how it is winning Game of the Year Awards and to be honestly that doesnt really impressed me. To me the true test is do Gamers still talk about that game 5 10 15 years later. like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…

2)in the other thread we were talking about the last of us which has been voted as one the best PS3 games of all time. as most of you probably know the first trailer for The Last of Us 2 came out and contained no gameplay, just showed the main characters, mood, and setting of the game. I watched reaction videos of gamers watching the trailer;grown men and women were crying because they are so in love with the story of the game. That says something

1)Again Demon’sSouls got Goty on Gspot that year and spawned sequels to DS3
With Bloodborne getting praises as best of best too
Gameplay centric games, and people wanting more of gameplay, bossfights, a game marketed as difficult hardcore game, found its niche expanded to 3 million sales (DS3)
To the point your fav Witcher2 copied DS combat but failed, they copied combat not story, for a reason
And no i remember ResidentEvil because of its survival concept, back in 1996 the tension to find next save room was equal to next checkpoint in Darksouls today

2)More people will remember story because of casual demographics, the reason why Journey as 2 hr script less mute game won Gotys,it punctuated the experience through gamedesign, copied yet again from guess what???
Demon’s Souls multiplayer
If it wasnt for DS, MGSV, LiD, Watchdogs etc would have been different, they all copied the game design concept, not story, it left mark in difficulty(game mechanics) to actual developers let alone some players like me

Just because every person cant play DarkSouls due to difficulty(gameplay), and it hasnt got marketing push of Tlou or UC, it doesnt mean the game is not there
Heck even people dont know and played Demon’sSouls , one started it all, just because it wasnt on their platform of choice
Point its, more people will talk about things accessible to them, put Lastoufus story in Darksouls, it wont gonna score 8+ million sales like it did now, even with memorable characters, so you have find right correlation

Its like majority people played QTE fest TWD but dont know and played Shenmue who invented the QTEs

You also need to look on the term Emergent gameplay to not confuse actual directed scripted storytelling from what we make ourselves
Witness did great job of not directing you but you direct yourselves from one puzzle area to another, find story or not its upto to you and not dependent upon forced cutscenes or anything

This thread has got me thinking about all the games I have played over the years and what I remember most about them. While it certainly isn’t the story, I can’t say the specific puzzles always stand out either.
But the best games I played took me away to a place, like a trip or a holiday. I remember them as I would a vacation, or a travel experience. I can vividly see that sunner on the rocks from Riven, and remember the creaks and groans of the ropes from the bridges in the village. Or the chilling descent to the basement with the flashlight in DarkFall. Even entering the Pyramid in Riddle Of the Sphinx. Those game took me places.
With the current game I am playing (The Witness), There is no doubt that this is a puzzle driven game. As for story, the narrative is even sparser than most first person puzzlers - nothing much to read at all. But there this is first and foremost an exploration game, and it it only through that, and time, and patience that a tale does come out of the landscape itself. Very cool! And has me re-evaluating my priorities. The more exploration and interaction with the environment I can have, the better I like a game.
So maybe for me it is not story, nor simply the puzzles, but the escapism. Somewhere I can go to be by myself and solve a mystery.

Detective Mosely - 13 January 2017 05:10 AM

darthmaul - 12 January 2017 01:17 PM

Detective Mosely - 11 January 2017 02:00 PM

Exactly.  That seems to be a factor that a lot of people miss whenever they say something like “If you want a good story read a book.”  I enjoy other forms of fiction too, but it’s a different experience entirely.

There’s something unique about being immersed in a world that you enjoy the story and characters of, and being able to interact with those characters and that world.  That feeling really can’t be replicated in any other medium than games.

I rarely get “immersed” in video game worlds.  The medium is not great for story telling on its own.  For a pure story experience, tv or books are 10,000x better mediums.  Their stories are way more complex and have more depth.  For me to play something on PC, it needs to have a game to it.

It’s really not so much about the story itself, but about the world and the characters in it.  I think games are just as good at being able to create worlds as any other medium, but only games allow you to interact with those worlds, which makes for a very different experience.

It depends on what each person considers “interact"ing to be.  For me, TT games don’t allow actual interaction, nor do walking games.  They give illusions of interacting.  To some, that is clearly enough.  Not to me.

I also disagree that that “world” and “characters” are comparable to the ones in books or tv.  They are a shadow in comparison imo.

And to the previous poster about Grim Fandango.  I’ve never put much stock into what is voted to be best this or best that.  I never agree with the lists.  If the masses determined best media’s best, then I’d feel ashamed.  Fandango was a poor game to me, with an abysmal control scheme and poor puzzles.  Popularity has never equaled greatness.

darthmaul - 13 January 2017 12:26 PM

Popularity has never equaled greatness.

Using never is quite a defacto
As i posted Silenthill proves that popularity and critical acclaim exists, SH inspired Hollywood actors, including deltoro and John Carpenter is a avid gamer too, call games as future of story medium, heck even David Goyer said that Hollywood copies games now

Inside is getting popular recently and is a masterpiece, amazing gameplay+story

Interactivity is itself a language
If there is lost of translation for some, doesnt mean to dismiss all of it

To make all talk more objective Games were accepted as Art form and BAFTA gives award for best writing

here for all,

He mentions ICO, Gadget,Bioshock and Sotc etc
He plays Left4dead meaning a director remembers a gameplay centric game(for jdawg)
He says cinematic storytelling is fantastic in UC2 (for darthmaul)
must listen timestamps
6:10
8:12
Narrative artform

if a game has a great story, but the puzzles suck, i’d constantly be ripped out of the story and into a sense of frustration / irritation / etc.

If a game has clever, original puzzles but the story sucks, I’d play it for 1 evening and then forget about it the next day - never returning (most likely).

To me, an adventure needs both to leave a good impression. They’re equally important.

nomadsoul - 13 January 2017 12:49 PM

darthmaul - 13 January 2017 12:26 PM

Popularity has never equaled greatness.

Using never is quite a defacto
As i posted Silenthill proves that popularity and critical acclaim exists, SH inspired Hollywood actors, including deltoro and John Carpenter is a avid gamer too, call games as future of story medium, heck even David Goyer said that Hollywood copies games now

Inside is getting popular recently and is a masterpiece, amazing gameplay+story

Interactivity is itself a language
If there is lost of translation for some, doesnt mean to dismiss all of it

To make all talk more objective Games were accepted as Art form and BAFTA gives award for best writing

here for all,

He mentions ICO, Gadget,Bioshock and Sotc etc
He plays Left4dead meaning a director remembers a gameplay centric game(for jdawg)
He says cinematic storytelling is fantastic in UC2 (for darthmaul)
must listen timestamps
6:10
8:12
Narrative artform

Yes, and it was used that way for a reason.  Popularity does not make something great.

nomadsoul - 13 January 2017 05:30 AM

Jdawg445 - 13 January 2017 02:32 AM

1)I’m just saying earlier you bring up a game like witness which is a puzzle game with basically no story and how it is winning Game of the Year Awards and to be honestly that doesnt really impressed me. To me the true test is do Gamers still talk about that game 5 10 15 years later. like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…

2)in the other thread we were talking about the last of us which has been voted as one the best PS3 games of all time. as most of you probably know the first trailer for The Last of Us 2 came out and contained no gameplay, just showed the main characters, mood, and setting of the game. I watched reaction videos of gamers watching the trailer;grown men and women were crying because they are so in love with the story of the game. That says something

1)Again Demon’sSouls got Goty on Gspot that year and spawned sequels to DS3
With Bloodborne getting praises as best of best too
Gameplay centric games, and people wanting more of gameplay, bossfights, a game marketed as difficult hardcore game, found its niche expanded to 3 million sales (DS3)
To the point your fav Witcher2 copied DS combat but failed, they copied combat not story, for a reason
And no i remember ResidentEvil because of its survival concept, back in 1996 the tension to find next save room was equal to next checkpoint in Darksouls today

2)More people will remember story because of casual demographics, the reason why Journey as 2 hr script less mute game won Gotys,it punctuated the experience through gamedesign, copied yet again from guess what???
Demon’s Souls multiplayer
If it wasnt for DS, MGSV, LiD, Watchdogs etc would have been different, they all copied the game design concept, not story, it left mark in difficulty(game mechanics) to actual developers let alone some players like me

Just because every person cant play DarkSouls due to difficulty(gameplay), and it hasnt got marketing push of Tlou or UC, it doesnt mean the game is not there
Heck even people dont know and played Demon’sSouls , one started it all, just because it wasnt on their platform of choice
Point its, more people will talk about things accessible to them, put Lastoufus story in Darksouls, it wont gonna score 8+ million sales like it did now, even with memorable characters, so you have find right correlation

Its like majority people played QTE fest TWD but dont know and played Shenmue who invented the QTEs

You also need to look on the term Emergent gameplay to not confuse actual directed scripted storytelling from what we make ourselves
Witness did great job of not directing you but you direct yourselves from one puzzle area to another, find story or not its upto to you and not dependent upon forced cutscenes or anything

Shenmue did not invent qte at all it goes all the way back to dragons lair at least which came out in 1983.

Jdawg445 - 14 January 2017 03:01 AM

nomadsoul - 13 January 2017 05:30 AM

Jdawg445 - 13 January 2017 02:32 AM

1)I’m just saying earlier you bring up a game like witness which is a puzzle game with basically no story and how it is winning Game of the Year Awards and to be honestly that doesnt really impressed me. To me the true test is do Gamers still talk about that game 5 10 15 years later. like I said most games that are remembered are remembered because of their stories like ff7 metal gear solid, chrono trigger etc…

2)in the other thread we were talking about the last of us which has been voted as one the best PS3 games of all time. as most of you probably know the first trailer for The Last of Us 2 came out and contained no gameplay, just showed the main characters, mood, and setting of the game. I watched reaction videos of gamers watching the trailer;grown men and women were crying because they are so in love with the story of the game. That says something

1)Again Demon’sSouls got Goty on Gspot that year and spawned sequels to DS3
With Bloodborne getting praises as best of best too
Gameplay centric games, and people wanting more of gameplay, bossfights, a game marketed as difficult hardcore game, found its niche expanded to 3 million sales (DS3)
To the point your fav Witcher2 copied DS combat but failed, they copied combat not story, for a reason
And no i remember ResidentEvil because of its survival concept, back in 1996 the tension to find next save room was equal to next checkpoint in Darksouls today

2)More people will remember story because of casual demographics, the reason why Journey as 2 hr script less mute game won Gotys,it punctuated the experience through gamedesign, copied yet again from guess what???
Demon’s Souls multiplayer
If it wasnt for DS, MGSV, LiD, Watchdogs etc would have been different, they all copied the game design concept, not story, it left mark in difficulty(game mechanics) to actual developers let alone some players like me

Just because every person cant play DarkSouls due to difficulty(gameplay), and it hasnt got marketing push of Tlou or UC, it doesnt mean the game is not there
Heck even people dont know and played Demon’sSouls , one started it all, just because it wasnt on their platform of choice
Point its, more people will talk about things accessible to them, put Lastoufus story in Darksouls, it wont gonna score 8+ million sales like it did now, even with memorable characters, so you have find right correlation

Its like majority people played QTE fest TWD but dont know and played Shenmue who invented the QTEs

You also need to look on the term Emergent gameplay to not confuse actual directed scripted storytelling from what we make ourselves
Witness did great job of not directing you but you direct yourselves from one puzzle area to another, find story or not its upto to you and not dependent upon forced cutscenes or anything

Shenmue did not invent qte at all it goes all the way back to dragons lair at least.

ps demon souls and dark souls is very influential and I have beaten dark souls 2 only one I ever played. I did not like the game bc the story, and setting did not connect with me, but I agree the whole invade other players worlds and the combat have been copied, but it borrowed from other games too. Also MGS5 would have been largely the same except the base invade part kojima been talking about a version like mgs5 since the early ps2 days, he even tried it with mgs3 but than had to scale it way back bc of limitations