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What is more important, the puzzles or the story?
@Iznogood, that’s a good point and I’d know hesitate more and more to classify games à la TellTale of being adventure games.
I wouldn’t even classify them as games.
Story is nothing unique to Adventure games anymore, back in the 90’s it was, but now pretty much every single game regardless of genre, has its main focus on the story, and to hell with the actual game mechanics that makes it a game
I disagree, story is important in many genres, but it’s much more enjoyable for me to play an action or an arcade game with great gameplay but lousy story, than to play an adventure game with good puzzles but lousy story. Especially because I agree with Sir Beardalot’s explanation of the role puzzles have in adventures: “I guess for me a nice happy medium is what I prefer, a good story with integrated puzzles that enhance the story without ruining the immersion by just being thrown in for filler.”
Although it seems a lot of people prefer puzzles over story, so I guess this is rather subjective…
In which category would you put exhausting the possibilities of a dialogue tree, or exploring a forest?
I would put both in the story category. “Story” is a probably a wrong word - I meant the plot, the characters, the atmosphere etc. vs. puzzles.
On second thought, exploring a forest is a great example of the way puzzles and story are tied in an adventure game. While exploring, you find out more about the story and become immersed in the game world, but at the same time, you’re probably collecting items and solving problems, which develops the story.
This discussion had been repeated maybe 100 times..
but excuse my ignorance for sec here.. can anyone tell me again what was the story of MI or QfG or even Syberia? ..
sorry but you guys who bringup this story issue who have ruined the genre.. if you are looking for the story….. you are at the wrong genre.. maybe better stick to your books reading..
at adventure games story only serves the puzzles and not the puzzle serving the story..
#1 puzzles
#2 exploration
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Story is last - Of the 200 or so games I have played over the years, I can really only remember the Gabriel Knight and Myst back stories, and that would be because I read the accompanying books.
I am fully aware that I am the exception at this forum.
Believable and engaging story and characters are paramount for me to enjoy a game. I like puzzles, too, but I mostly judge them based on how well integrated they are in the world and in the plot.
This integration and the attendant sense of interactivity seem to make the magic of adventure games for me: I keep returning to them despite the allure of books, movies, and TV.
(Or maybe it’s the sense of accomplishment I feel whenever I uncover another piece of the story? Hmm…)
This discussion had been repeated maybe 100 times..
So are community playthroughs and other classics discussions, 5 years from now we will still be doing postmortem of Syberia 
but excuse my ignorance for sec here.. can anyone tell me again what was the story of MI or QfG or even Syberia? ..
Syberia had amazing story, lawyer’s discovery, it can be made into film pretty nicely
Gk3 to brokensword all had amazing story, so did graymatter, infact sometimes puzzles are means to the find out end, if its Illuminati or Freemasons, and they did it before Danbrown.
It was only intellectual genre of storytelling before then Deusex and Torment type RPGs happened then latter SoulReaver,MGS type actionadventure made it uniform
MI i agree, thats why i added conversations as separate component, in games like MI there is not proper coherent stuff, just conversations making it click
at adventure games story only serves the puzzles and not the puzzle serving the story..
But you loved Cage and TTG
my reply will be long, but to get the suspense out the way it is “story” an not even close, in any visual media it is always the story, from tv, movies, plays, to games. the reason I put story in quotes is bc I think that is a generic term so let me expand on it, story to me also includes, characters, dialogue, and acting. A lot of games do have repetitive stories, but than again so do movies and other media, so its the subtle changes and characters that we connect to. For instance 90 percent of all rpgs have the same basic story beats, usually a young unsung character has to rise above where he/she came from and save the world from an ultimate evil or bad guy. It is how you get there and the characters that make the journey. A recent example for me is I have played the first 3 uncharted games and all the stories are very basic and generic they range from indiana jones type fan fiction to national treasure schlock, but the characters are great, the actors do a great job with the voice acting, and the dialogue is snappy and witty.
Now to the adventure game genre, I need a good story/characters to go along with the puzzles or else I would just play straight puzzle games. I think the best puzzles compliment the game world that the devs created. For instance the crazy puzzles in monkey island or sam and max make sense bc those are funny games and funny worlds similar to looney toons; so a crazy puzzle involving a chicken pulley fits into that universe. Than you have games with really hard puzzles that also make sense like the dig; in that game you go to a whole other alien world, so the puzzles are more abstract and alien so the puzzles are hard ( I remember back in AOL days spending 2 hrs downloading a diagram of how to put that dang alien turtles skeleton back together lol). The puzzles that dont make sense are the ones that are in a more serious games yet have wacky puzzles like the cat mustache or the mime in the gabriel knight games. The best puzzles in adventure games compliment the game worlds for example what we see in wadjet eye games, most puzzles in their games fit into the worlds for which they exist. For instance to open or break a window you dont need to think abstractly or combine items, just use a rock to break it or your gun.
Long answer I know but thats what I think lol 
I think we need to make a clear distinction between story and storytelling. For me the magic happens not because of “what the story is”, but because of “how the story’s told”.
I think we need to make a clear distinction between story and storytelling. For me the magic happens not because of “what the story is”, but because of “how the story’s told”.
Thats recurring point in other debates of Story i have been reading since Ps2 era
And i totally agree
But its more applicable in genres that uses more mechanics than PnC or puzzles
Like in action adventure you can have Soul reaver,killer7 and Sanity’s requiem etc
AG is limited in a sense that once it goes a little action heavy it becomes Action
adventure
my reply will be long, but to get the suspense out the way it is “story” an not even close, in any visual media it is always the story, from tv, movies, plays, to games.
Top 10 best rated games, ranges from Zelda,MetroidPrime to Halflife2
Then games like Darksouls take Gotys.
Story can take back seat, mechanics is what makes it IMO
I like a good balance of both, though puzzles and gameplay in general are slightly more important to me.
But most importantly : FUN!!!
FUN is what makes me want to play an adventure game. Take Discworld for example, there isn’t much story to it and puzzles are convoluted sometimes, yet this was some of the best memories I’ve ever had.
I can recall several adventure games that were plain boring / slow, despite being very famous… These are often dark games which focus only on narrative and no gameplay. (you can include the modern TellTale games into that list)
Oh, and good sountracks too! Musics are way too often overlooked in adventure games.
French creator & solo developer of “BROK the InvestiGator” (coming soon) and “Demetrios” (Available on PC, iOS, Android, PS4, Xbox One, PS Vita and Nintendo Switch)
Story is nothing unique to Adventure games anymore, back in the 90’s it was, but now pretty much every single game regardless of genre, has its main focus on the story, and to hell with the actual game mechanics that makes it a game
I disagree, story is important in many genres, but it’s much more enjoyable for me to play an action or an arcade game with great gameplay but lousy story, than to play an adventure game with good puzzles but lousy story.
That may very well be your personal preference, but that doesn’t change the simple fact that the story is now just as big a part of most other genres, especially RPG’s and Action Adventures, as it has always been in AG’s.
If you look at the big blockbuster games of recent years, then what they are usually praised for is their great story, environment and world building, but rarely is the game mechanics like the combat anything that is worth mentioning. I’m also fairly certain that if you made a similar poll on a general gaming site like “What is more important, the combat or the story?”, then the responses would be similar to what you are getting here, with a small majority choosing story over gameplay.
But most importantly : FUN!!!
I can second that 
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I think we need to make a clear distinction between story and storytelling. For me the magic happens not because of “what the story is”, but because of “how the story’s told”.
Thats recurring point in other debates of Story i have been reading since Ps2 era
And i totally agree
But its more applicable in genres that uses more mechanics than PnC or puzzles
Like in action adventure you can have Soul reaver,killer7 and Sanity’s requiem etcAG is limited in a sense that once it goes a little action heavy it becomes Action
adventuremy reply will be long, but to get the suspense out the way it is “story” an not even close, in any visual media it is always the story, from tv, movies, plays, to games.
Top 10 best rated games, ranges from Zelda,MetroidPrime to Halflife2
Then games like Darksouls take Gotys.
Story can take back seat, mechanics is what makes it IMO
top 10 rated doesnt mean always the best, I have played all those games and the only one that makes my to 10 is half life two which did have a very good story and a unique way of telling it. Im guessing you are talking about the original zelda, which ps did try telling a story but during the 8 bit era was a lot harder to do. If you mean ocrina of time, I will say once again it had a really good story with interesting characters and an interesting way of telling the story using time travel.
ps I just typed in top 10 rated videogames in google and the top results that showed up for me were metal gear solid, bioshock 2, portal 2, Portal, witcher 3, grand theft auto 5, Red Dead Redemption, etc…. lol; which all are story based games to an extent. Its also a generation and nostagia thing; if you ask my mom who is 60 what the best movie of all time is she will tell you gone with the wind, if you ask her what is her favorite/best videogame of all time is she will tell you dr mario. If you ask me the best movie is godfather 1 and 2, and maybe the christopher reeves superman movies, and my favorite/best game series of all time is its wing commander. If we ask some 13 yr old kid he will probably say the ironman movies and call of duty are the best. I guess what im saying is a lot of those older games have huge nostalgia attached to them and just have more ratings in volume giving to them bc they have been out over 30 yrs
@jdawg
ok since you are adamant
How do you define Overwatch and Witness getting Gotys, later is AG with story as weakest link
On other hand AGs like TWD sweep too
There is no hard and fast rule
Zelda never had good story, Mario has none
Splatoon also won Gotys without nostalgia
By saying story = games, you are writing off majority of fighting games, competitive Esports and MMOs that constitute major chunk of gaming revenues and industry
Wilco can cover you on this with his Destiny rant
And lucien can tell you if he took Doom story as motivation or gameplay
Doom Devs say themselves, hey its doom screw story , kill demons thats what it is and guess what, it got Gotys too
btw here,
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered
http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html
All games have story, even Darksouls, point is which games emphasize story more than gameplay, Make no mistake, UC is not Darksouls, W3 aint no Skyrim etc
Also all gamers dont play GTA for story, check the completion rate
I think we need to make a clear distinction between story and storytelling. For me the magic happens not because of “what the story is”, but because of “how the story’s told”.
Good point.
Adventure games have both puzzles (or something to do) and story (told through gameplay) to varying degrees. That we have a choice of mostly puzzle/exploration versus narrative/character driven on a spectrum is a sign that the genre is doing ok.
I think these threads are fun just to touch base with some new member preferences and opinions, as well as hear from us old fuddy-duddy Myst-loving dinosaurs. 
@jdawg
ok since you are adamant
How do you define Overwatch and Witness getting Gotys, later is AG with story as weakest link
On other hand AGs like TWD sweep too
There is no hard and fast ruleZelda never had good story, Mario has none
Splatoon also won Gotys without nostalgiaBy saying story = games, you are writing off majority of fighting games, competitive Esports and MMOs that constitute major chunk of gaming revenues and industry
Wilco can cover you on this with his Destiny rant
And lucien can tell you if he took Doom story as motivation or gameplay
Doom Devs say themselves, hey its doom screw story , kill demons thats what it is and guess what, it got Gotys toobtw here,
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered
http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.htmlAll games have story, even Darksouls, point is which games emphasize story more than gameplay, Make no mistake, UC is not Darksouls, W3 aint no Skyrim etc
Also all gamers dont play GTA for story, check the completion rate
I never said it equals but I did say story is very important and it is and to me its the most important. it is the reason why a lot of games with poor gameplay are forgiving if the story is well executed, but a lot of times games are forgotten if the gameplay is good but the story is blah. for example I love bulletstorm bc the gamplay is fun and addicting but it is largely forgotten bc of the story. On the opposite hand I think most would say the puzzles for grim fandango were avg and the tank controls were awful aka gameplay but the story is really good so a lot say its the best adventure game ever, I disagree with that statement but I understand it. It is all about perspective. Zelda did have a story just like metro but it is hard to tell it when you only have 8 bits of memory to do so. Even mario tried to tell a very basic save the princess from the dragon story. If you think ocrina of time had no story, characters,or lore and world building then we wont ever agree. There are countless examples across genres where a game is heaped praise upon, not bx of gameplay but story. just a few more off the top of my head dragons lair was much like a TTG aka a quicktime mini game the whole time, bjut it is remembered bc of the characters and wonderful animation from Don Bluth. Same with something like FF7; the gampeplay is good and solid but it is your typical jrpg fare, the reason it is remembered so fondly is bc of the story and characters. Same with something like metal gear solid. I would say metal gear solid 1-4 were largely the same type of games with improvements in graphics and stealth mechanics every time but not huge changes in gameplay, but what kept 90 percent of players coming back was the story. They changed that with 5 and would say made a huge leap in the gameplay department but most fans will tell you it is their least favorite game bc of the story. Same with mass effect, all three games had good gameplay with 3 probably having the best mix of pure third person action and rpg elements but its gets ripped bc of the last 15 minutes of story. So it was very important there
For the record im not saying gameplay is unimportant, its why we are having a page long discussion about witcher 3 in another thread, but for me its the story; if the story captures me I will invest the huge amount of hrs into beating that game even if the lack of difficulty and the gameplay underwhelm me like it has in witcher 3. if the story loses me I will lose interest in the game, like I did with all gta games after vice city, for the record have not played 5 yet. Im also of the mindset that unlike when I was younger, gamers now a days have far more options and get bored really easily so story and gameplay loses there. When I was young I got maybe 2 games a yr so I played them a lot more. Between digital games, gamespot and other sources most gamers get tons of new games every month. So there is no real desire to beat games over and over.
I realize I made a general sweeping statement but it is how I feel, especially in the adventure game genre. Its def a mix of gameplay and story but if the story does not capture you at all, I guess I dont see how puzzles can save the game. For the record im talking about adventure games that truly try to have a real story, not like witness or even myst.
But you loved Cage and TTG
send me some extra dollars this time and i would i do.
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