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Shivers is one of my favorite games (definitely my favorite Sierra game) and I replay it regularly.
The last two times I played it I used DOSBox with Windows 3.1 installed as described at VOGONS
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=9405

Not all Windows 3.1 games will work as well in DOSBox as Shivers did. But if you have a copy of Windows 3.1 or 3.11 it’s worth trying for those Windows 3.x games not supported by ScummVM. VOGONS has links for the necessary Windows 3.x drivers.

Kurufinwe - 14 January 2018 12:00 PM

I thought about giving Rama a try when it got supported by ScummVM. However, I read up on it a little bit, and it turns out that the last quarter or so of the game is huge timed sequence: you have three hours or so to complete it, and have to redo the whole thing if you run out of time. Fuck that; life’s too short for this sort of punishing design.

Which is why I’ve replayed the first part of the game several times, but only finished it once (and that time with a walkthrough). The timed part speeds up when you move. Here’s an excerpt from a walkthrough (by “Tally Ho”) that describes how the timing in the timed part works. I don’t think this is a spoiler, but just in case
As soon as Richard Wakefield stops talking, the six-hour countdown begins. The clock does not run at a constant rate, however. When you are standing still, or working within one room, it keeps approximately normal time. However, it takes into account that whenever you change locations, it takes time to travel. Because of this effect, wandering back and forth can use up your time before you can finish all the tasks. In addition, if you have not completed all of the other tasks before entering the Avian Lair, your clock will last only a few minutes. You will probably have to play this section and learn it well, then return to this point in order to do everything smoothly and promptly. Check the remaining time with your wrist computer.
It was hard enough moving around that mazelike area without the timer. The first time I got through it (with the walkthrough), the game crashed at the instant I finished the sequence, so I had to go through it twice in order to see the end sequence. I’d recommend just quitting the game at the start of the timed sequence and watching the end on YouTube.

     
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crabapple - 14 January 2018 12:37 PM

I’d recommend just quitting the game at the start of the timed sequence and watching the end on YouTube.

Agree, esp today, we consider timed sequence is the most irritating thing at any adventure, but back then mostly all Sierra games had it and we endured it, and the idea of pushing the boundaries of diffuclity at the end of their game was a tradition, SQ1,2,3..PQ2,3..etc, and many other games even outta Sierra’s collection.
  maybe because we were young or maybe the huge and excisive changes of the adventuring scene, thru what…? two generations! later made it impossible to accept such time sequence, but if you take this part outta Rama it still stands out as a great classical Gem of the golden age.

     
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The Rama situation is so frustrating. It sounds like a game I’d enjoy, but I know even thinking about the timed thing is going to ruin the experience for me… Ugh!

     
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Have an idea, let’s play Rama! Will get to it sooner or later, might as well be now.
Timed sequence sounds bad, probably will try it a couple of times and just look at the walkthrough after.
Rama doesn’t even have screenshots in here so clearly something has to be done Smile

     
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rtrooney - 14 January 2018 11:48 AM

I don’t remember the exact game mechanics, but the dead end is on the second floor. You go down a hallway, and there is a pile of lumber in the hallway. (It one of the several “wood” Ixupi hiding places.) You go past the lumber pile. There is a slider-type puzzle you have to solve on the left wall, and there is a fortune-teller puzzle in a room just past the slider puzzle. The problem is that there is no exit from this area except to go back to the lumber pile. In my instance the wood Ixupi inhabited the pile after I went past it the first time, and I had the wrong pot part and the Ixupi would neither move or let me pass. And, since there was no other exit, the only two choices are to quit the game and lose your progress or commit suicide-by-Ixupi, which also causes all
progress to be lost. Just hope you have a recent save. I didn’t.

I think I know which place it is, I guess having a death and random placements added in the game design could have led to it.

     

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rtrooney - 14 January 2018 11:48 AM

I don’t remember the exact game mechanics, but the dead end is on the second floor. You go down a hallway, and there is a pile of lumber in the hallway. (It one of the several “wood” Ixupi hiding places.) You go past the lumber pile. There is a slider-type puzzle you have to solve on the left wall, and there is a fortune-teller puzzle in a room just past the slider puzzle. The problem is that there is no exit from this area except to go back to the lumber pile. In my instance the wood Ixupi inhabited the pile after I went past it the first time, and I had the wrong pot part and the Ixupi would neither move or let me pass. And, since there was no other exit, the only two choices are to quit the game and lose your progress or commit suicide-by-Ixupi, which also causes all progress to be lost. Just hope you have a recent save. I didn’t.

I don’t think a single Ixupi can suck you dry. At worst it takes some of your life force, which you can get back if you capture it. But unless you’ve previously had other Ixupi draining off pieces of your life force and don’t have much left, I don’t think a single Ixupi can kill you.

Also if you hear Ixupi music, you can quickly turn 90 degrees and it won’t get you. I don’t think you go straight through the wood pile to leave. I think you turn left or right (don’t remember which) so you should be able to get past the Ixupi.

     

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Advie - 14 January 2018 01:18 PM

Agree, esp today, we consider timed sequence is the most irritating thing at any adventure, but back then mostly all Sierra games had it and we endured it, and the idea of pushing the boundaries of difficulty at the end of their game was a tradition, SQ1,2,3..PQ2,3..etc, and many other games even outta Sierra’s collection.
  Maybe because we were young or maybe the huge and excessive changes of the adventuring scene, thru what…? two generations! later made it impossible to accept such time sequence, but if you take this part outta Rama it still stands out as a great classical Gem of the golden age.

We think developers should know by now that we don’t enjoy things like timed sequences. But compare the “stompers” in Gemini Rue to pretty much anything in the early King’s Quest games. With a Hint or 2 or 3 I am eventually able to finish the King’s Quest adventures. No amount of Hints got me past the “stompers” in Gemini Rue.

The early Sierra games were bad about dead ends.
But I don’t think they were the worst for timed sequences.

     
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crabapple - 14 January 2018 04:43 PM
rtrooney - 14 January 2018 11:48 AM

I don’t remember the exact game mechanics, but the dead end is on the second floor. You go down a hallway, and there is a pile of lumber in the hallway. (It one of the several “wood” Ixupi hiding places.) You go past the lumber pile. There is a slider-type puzzle you have to solve on the left wall, and there is a fortune-teller puzzle in a room just past the slider puzzle. The problem is that there is no exit from this area except to go back to the lumber pile. In my instance the wood Ixupi inhabited the pile after I went past it the first time, and I had the wrong pot part and the Ixupi would neither move or let me pass. And, since there was no other exit, the only two choices are to quit the game and lose your progress or commit suicide-by-Ixupi, which also causes all progress to be lost. Just hope you have a recent save. I didn’t.

I don’t think a single Ixupi can suck you dry. At worst it takes some of your life force, which you can get back if you capture it. But unless you’ve previously had other Ixupi draining off pieces of your life force and don’t have much left, I don’t think a single Ixupi can kill you.

Also if you hear Ixupi music, you can quickly turn 90 degrees and it won’t get you. I don’t think you go straight through the wood pile to leave. I think you turn left or right (don’t remember which) so you should be able to get past the Ixupi.

I think you missed the jist. The Ixupi didn’t appear in the woodpile until after I passed it. Yes, when I approached it from the other direction, I heard the sound, but there was nowhere to go. It’s been close to twenty years since I played it, so I don’t remember what I was carrying. Still, assuming it didn’t kill me when I tried to get past it the first time, there’s still nowhere to go. So it will kill me eventually. Sierra admitted it was an undiscovered design flaw that was not caught in beta testing because it required a unique set of circumstances to occur in order for a player to get caught in the dead end loop.

I think your recollection of the available directions is in error. I don’t remember where you are when you turn into the hallway in question. But once you enter the hallway, the wood is stacked on your left hand side. You go past it and turn right. On your left is an alcove where you find the “slider” puzzle that is reminiscent of “Napoleon on Horseback” except the horse is a two-headed monstrosity. Once that puzzle is solved, you turn right and see a door. Enter the door and there are two more puzzles in the room. One of which involves a fortune telling machine. I don’t remember what the other puzzle was. Exit the room, and head back to the stacked wood. The wood Ixupi has arrived and won’t let you pass. Go back to the door and go straight one more move. No exit. Choice is to return to the woodpile where the Ixupi will eventually kill you, or you quit the game. Either way it’s a dead end.

And I use the term “dead end” because you are in a situation where you have no choice that won’t lead to death. If you save the game and reload it, you are faced with the exact same predicament.

I think Shivers is the Sierra game I have played the most. I’m sure I have played it at least six times.

     

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I’m familiar with the location you’re talking about, as well as the ugly two-headed horse puzzle. I don’t remember for sure whether you had to back out once before turning when you’re at the lumber, but I did get past that location when there was an Ixupi there, both on the way in and on the way out. If there is a bug at that location that depends on what inventory you have, then I must not have had that inventory.

Also, don’t your Ixupi move around? They’re supposed to periodically shift locations. And after they bite you they should move immediately, like the water Ixupi that bites you near the beginning of the game.

     
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wilco - 14 January 2018 04:12 PM

Have an idea, let’s play Rama! Will get to it sooner or later, might as well be now.
Timed sequence sounds bad, probably will try it a couple of times and just look at the walkthrough after.
Rama doesn’t even have screenshots in here so clearly something has to be done Smile

Good luck. I didn’t get very far in Rama, so I’m interested in your experience.

     

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this was uploaded by a fan over FB today, its Imgs i like these that make blood runs wild thing what do i know really.

     

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Advie - 15 January 2018 03:28 PM

Is that a variant RAMA box on the top shelf?
Or is it a poster or insert of some sort?
My box looks like this
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/rama/cover-art/gameCoverId,2158/
without the stickers.

     
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That’s a great collection. Is the bottle of beer part of it? Seems like it’s front of a Larry game

     
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i wouldn’t know or mostly sure either case

But Rama had one Limited Edtion released alter’96 that looked nice but nuthing like this

Also as that box behind the bottle kinda seem as larry written’s on it but i am sure its no Larry adventure, not any release looked anything like it.


P.S: as for Rama again, this no Rama only box it could be a collection, actually definitely a collection if you look closer to the bok borders and with Rama upfront as maybe it was the latest release at the time, a kinda promotion to it.

     
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With Shivers and Rama done think it’s time for something simpler and since I’ve read they don’t have dead-ends might trying the Ecoquest series for some positive environment messages…

     

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