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LGBT Topics in Adventure Games

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rtrooney - 21 June 2017 09:52 PM
nomadsoul - 21 June 2017 06:20 PM

If that doesnt say anything to you, then i should shut up:)

It is hard to disagree with that conclusion.

+3 internet point for your diss
Congrats

     

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I don’t really know if my post should be in this thread or start a new one, but does it really make sense to view Jane Jensen as having a “leftist” agenda? In fact, GK1 has mostly afro-american villains and lacks tolerance for religion of voodoo and her gay or gayish characters tend to be tormented people fighting with their demons. Lamenting about the fate of Malia Gedde is feminist, but what is really leftist about feminism of a middle class woman?
Also i just have to throw in quote from wikipedia about Ludwig 2 - “Ludwig never married, nor had any known mistresses. It is known from his diary (begun in the 1860s), private letters, and other surviving personal documents, that he had strong homosexual desires”. Making werewolfism into an allegory about homosexual urges seems more than a little conservative.

     

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Another thing about politics in films and other entertainment -if few minority characters appear in them, it is politics. But if more minority characters appear in entertainment, doesn’t it mean that previous politics worked and now people are not worried about inserting minorities into their media any more?

     
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wilco - 21 June 2017 02:14 PM

You can’t really know until Rockstar tries it, no? Very few women play FPS, why would they play it if the all genre is about man shooting each other? but suddenly Overwatch arrives and it’s more appealing than the typical Cod and suddenly more woman are playing a competitive FPS.

I am curious, what percentage of gamers who play Overwatch are female? I tried to find stats but did not find anything concrete.

     
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chrissie - 21 June 2017 02:41 PM

Fortunately, there is no ‘Equal Opportunities’ agenda imposed on developers & never should there be.

Unfortunately that is not true anymore. Ever since this:
https://gamerant.com/ubisoft-excuses-for-no-females-in-assassins-creed-unity/
lots of developers have been scared of backlash by including the diverse cast that nomad mentioned. It is probably a talking point, especially in larger companies building games.

rtrooney - 21 June 2017 09:52 PM
nomadsoul - 21 June 2017 06:20 PM

If that doesnt say anything to you, then i should shut up:)

It is hard to disagree with that conclusion.

That’s really uncalled for.

     
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SoccerDude28 - 22 June 2017 03:01 AM
wilco - 21 June 2017 02:14 PM

You can’t really know until Rockstar tries it, no? Very few women play FPS, why would they play it if the all genre is about man shooting each other? but suddenly Overwatch arrives and it’s more appealing than the typical Cod and suddenly more woman are playing a competitive FPS.

I am curious, what percentage of gamers who play Overwatch are female? I tried to find stats but did not find anything concrete.

No idea but bigger than Cod, stil probably a small percentage compared to male players of course.

@nomad
Your E3 list is all kinds of wrong, how the hell is heavy-handed a black man starring in a AC set in old Egypt? How is it heavy-handed a black woman starring in the resistance movement against nazi set in the US? Or that Insomniac can’t have Miles Morales, a fan-favorite, and should be forced to use Peter Parker the whole game for the 100th time.
I think your trying to say there should be no forced political agenda in games, that’s ok but the examples you chose are terrible,  just seems like you think more diversity is a bad thing.

     
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chrissie - 21 June 2017 04:27 PM
nomadsoul - 21 June 2017 03:42 PM

JJ’s writing of gay males for anyone , for female or not didnt work for me
It came across just a solid 2.5/5 just like you didnt like the whole game

What writing though?
In Moebius (& oh, I wasn’t going to say any more!) the leanings of both Malachi & David were ambiguous - no, it didn’t seem that either guy were particularly attracted to women but there was no evidence in the game that the attraction between them was more than a spiritual thing (rather than sexual) much like the relationship between Gabriel Knight & Friedrich von Glower in GK 2.
Yes, von Glower ‘caressed’ sleeping Gabriel’s face but he had met a man that he wanted companionship from to share his ‘werewolfness’ with within safer havens that potentially wouldn’t hurt anyone & at the end of the game Gabriel told Grace that he loved von Glower. Gabriel wasn’t gay but perhaps von Glower was but I tend to think that relationship was more about two guys bonding & ‘touching souls’  which is how I perceived the relationship between Malachi & David.

I’m pretty sure Jane Jensen is considering it to be homosexual. On her Reddit AME she said that she always wanted to continue the Malachi/David storyline, and that she still might write a book in the Moebious universe that would ‘probably get kinkier’.

     
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CroGamer - 22 June 2017 08:14 AM
chrissie - 21 June 2017 04:27 PM
nomadsoul - 21 June 2017 03:42 PM

JJ’s writing of gay males for anyone , for female or not didnt work for me
It came across just a solid 2.5/5 just like you didnt like the whole game

What writing though?
In Moebius (& oh, I wasn’t going to say any more!) the leanings of both Malachi & David were ambiguous - no, it didn’t seem that either guy were particularly attracted to women but there was no evidence in the game that the attraction between them was more than a spiritual thing (rather than sexual) much like the relationship between Gabriel Knight & Friedrich von Glower in GK 2.
Yes, von Glower ‘caressed’ sleeping Gabriel’s face but he had met a man that he wanted companionship from to share his ‘werewolfness’ with within safer havens that potentially wouldn’t hurt anyone & at the end of the game Gabriel told Grace that he loved von Glower. Gabriel wasn’t gay but perhaps von Glower was but I tend to think that relationship was more about two guys bonding & ‘touching souls’  which is how I perceived the relationship between Malachi & David.

I’m pretty sure Jane Jensen is considering it to be homosexual. On her Reddit AME she said that she always wanted to continue the Malachi/David storyline, and that she still might write a book in the Moebious universe that would ‘probably get kinkier’.

I probably would have rated Moebius higher than 3 stars if it had involved some hot gay bondage between Malachi and David.  Thumbs Up  Heart Eyes

Which raises another question - why are adventure games so prudish? We have TV shows and movies with full sex scenes, but not AGs? It’s a bit childish.

     
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chrissie - 21 June 2017 02:41 PM
BitingWit - 20 June 2017 10:35 PM


Around 95% of games are made for the male audience, despite women being 50% of the gaming audience. No one complains about that (well, some women do, but they are rare). So why is it such a bad thing for JJ to admit that Moebius MIGHT have been made primarily for the enjoyment of women? (Not that I think it necessarily was - I enjoyed it even though I’m a guy. Although I will admit it wasn’t a very good game).

It’s interesting that it has been mainly the opinions of male reviewers along with those of male players that have ‘dissed it’ & led to the closure of Pinkerton Studios. 
In what way did you not find it a very good game BitingWit?

I’ve rated that game 3.5 and probably would shave half a point now. I was disappointed mostly because of the story.
GK had very good and deep stories and even the novelizations of the games were quite fun to read. I don’t believe that there’s enough meat in Moebius to make a good novel. I also really disliked some of the graphic not so much due to quality but more as a visceral reaction (those teeths creeped me out).
The relatively slight homo-erotic unresolved sexual tension between David and Malachi didn’t change my rating either way.

In term of diversity, I don’t need games to cater exclusively to my own demographics, that’s rather boring Smile

     
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wilco - 22 June 2017 07:14 AM

@nomad
how the hell is heavy-handed a black man starring in a AC set in old Egypt?

AssO always whitewashed islamic history of Hashashins, it was never known for its historical accuracy for those who have read it, except art of locations
Do you know why french protagonists were speaking in english accent or in english?
I think you are getting wrong idea about the finesse of AC franchise
You also are forgetting how much flak Ubi got for not including female and then they did in sequel smh, thats forced
Maybe the whole Egypt setting is on purpose since director himself is Muslim , same case
was with Manveer heir of ME Andromeda who had indian origins and hated white people , his whole twitter tirade against white forced EA to fire him
(PS = Not everyone share grudges on twitter but harbors them)

How is it heavy-handed a black woman starring in the resistance movement against nazi set in the US?

How many articles and vids you want me to PM you about journalists discussing and enjoying Black afro woman as diversity and celebrating killing aryans?? Quote the number

Insomniac can’t have Miles Morales, a fan-favorite, and should be forced to use Peter Parker the whole game for the 100th time.

Why now? Where was this awareness in PS3/Ps2 days, lets say by same insomniac or marvel?

Or that
I think your trying to say there should be no forced political agenda in games, that’s ok but the examples you chose are terrible,  just seems like you think more diversity is a bad thing

Forced anything is bad thing, whether someone like Rtooney will boogey me like they did Lastnight guy into submission, or a forced mechanic like xray vision in stealth games

I believe in Egalitarianism , one should not be coaxed to change their opinions on forums or in games for market or Political tools
If there is political correctness then it should be across the board for all minorities
If there is none then there should be across the board

And in games if one part of US is flamed by FC5 and for rest is joke(like you treat religion) then anyone doing otherwise should be treated as a fair opinion in the name of freedom of expression too

I am working in a multi ethnic company and the first Principle of Marketing book has definition of organization as group of all backgrounds esp necessary in globalized world, but when market ideologies start shaping games , its games become too political
Its okay if you treat games just as entertainment but its bad if you consider some games as Art like Dishonored series

You know how kojima, suda and swery get heat for treatment of women?
Dont act like you for all people dont know, i know you know wat i mean

In short gaming industry is gradually creating safe spaces for one side of ideology only

     
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Some of your implications are fucked up, nomad, forget it, this is going way off-topic

     
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wilco - 22 June 2017 04:55 PM

forget it, this is going way off-topic[/spoiler]

CroGamer - 26 September 2016 04:23 PM

And what do you think of LGBT representation in adventure games?  Crazy

I was discussing JJ and you pulled a R*, BGE, Overwatch strawman

     
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Nomadsoul did you get Get Even?

     

“Going on means going far - Going far means returning”

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nomadsoul - 21 June 2017 01:36 PM

auteur should do what they themselves feel, giving to pressure of societal politics and need is death of art

Creating art is not some magical process where the work comes out of the artist’s brain fully formed, and then making any adjustments whatsoever to “the original vision” is a bastardization. Once in a while perhaps it happens like that, but especially for something huge like a game it’s going to be a slow process of creation, changing, cutting, editing, etc.

You’re essentially saying that artists should never take any feedback whatsoever, and that’s ridiculous.

Even for something like a novel where there is only one author working largely alone, they have almost always had an official editor cutting things and suggesting changes, as well as many friends and family reading and giving suggestions.

If I write a book starring a bunch of white males, get some heat for it, think to myself “hmm they have a point, a diverse cast would be more interesting, would better represent the population, and might even do some political good”, and then write the sequel with more minorities, this is perfectly fine and consistent with art. The assertion that me responding to that feedback is the “death of art” is idiocy.

Dan himself said that GTA is male power fantasy and will always be Americana

Right, so he is an idiot. Violent “male power fantasies” are the very last thing we still need in games, and adventure gamers have traditionally been on board with that for over 20 years.

     

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Personally, I don’t care if there is LGBT in a game, if it has a good story and lots of good puzzles, I just don’t care. Live and let live and get over it. It is just a game.  I don’t even look at that aspect of a game and could not care less. Just play the game for the fun and exploration and enjoying the puzzles and the escape aspect of the game.

     

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