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RPGs do narrative better than AGs
I agree that this differs between individual games. There are both strengths and weaknesses with linear and none-linear stories.
But if storytelling are your favorite aspect of playing games then adventuregames are still overall a much more safer bet than RPGs. Although the absolute ideal genre in this regard is obviously visual novels.
NP: A Link Between Worlds, Beneath a Steel Sky and Vampyr
My 2 favorite genres but while RPGs started from mostly pure combat then went to the adventure genre and picked up some aspects to make them evolve (storytelling, dialogues, combat) the reverse didn’t happen and the adventure genre focused in a more linear controlled experience.
But the question here is specific about narrative and adventure is possibly better for more small focused intense stories, RGPs are better for large epic stories and worlds with complex systems.
But I do wish an adventure would dream bigger and be more open-world.
One of the things about adventure games that I’ve never been crazy about is the tendency for them to not take their story seriously. Of course, this isn’t true of every adventure game but many of the classics go a bit overboard with the silliness. I’m certainly not opposed to some humor in games but I prefer it be subtle enough that it doesn’t break my immersion… I’m just not a fan of fourth wall-breaking, pop culture references, and things like that. That’s not to say everything needs to be an ultra gritty, dark, epic story either; light-hearted adventures are fine sometimes.
That said, a lot of RPG stories tend to suffer from being generic, cliche, or predictable. Seems like 95% of RPGs take place in high fantasy medieval Europe setting and have the player take on the role of the chosen one who must rise from humble beginnings to defeat the ancient evil… And I’m so sick of that story. I would like to see more RPGs taking place in different types of settings- sci-fi, steampunk, Wild West, Asian, etc… There’s so many possible historical periods and regions that have rarely been in explored in RPGs and would make for very interesting stories.. Sure, more medieval fantasy is fine, but I’d like to at least see different takes on it- not always about saving the world.
I do also wish there were more adventure games that would take a less linear approach. At least, I like it when there are sometimes multiple ways to accomplish a goal. I am also a big fan of the Quest For Glory-style adventure game / RPG hybrids.
Good RPG narration isn’t that common really. There’s been a few good ones here and there, but that’s it.
Recently completed: Game of Thrones (decent), Tales from the borderlands (great!), Life is Strange (great!), Stasis (good), Annas Quest (great!); Broken Age (poor)
Let me answer your question with a clear and unambiguous NO!
RPGs usually contains a lot of lore, and many modern RPGs also tells a specific story, but it is still not one coherent story as we are used to in adventure games. The quest based nature of RPGs means that the story is stitched together of many smaller stories kind of like a patchwork blanket.
Take for example the Mass Effect series which is famous for its story. In ME2 something like 80 or 90% of the whole game consists of recruitment mission, loyalty missions and side quests that has nothing or only very little to do with the main story. These side stories also has their charm but narratively or story-wise it doesn’t quite compare to AGs.
If compared to literature, I would say that AGs is like a novel whereas RPGs are like a collection of short stories bound together by a framework story.
The other thing is that RPGs are more limited in the kind of stories that they can tell, or at least they have been so far, there might of course in the future also come more unusual RPGs, though I still have a hard time imagining a story like The Cat lady being told in an RPG.
RPGs and for that matter also other kind of games, have improved a lot in the narrative or story department in the recent years, but I would say that AGs are still king when it comes to telling stories.
Edit: I agree that there is other things that RPGs generally do better than AGs like free exploration and more freedom in how you want to play the game, and I believe there are many things AGs could learn form RPGs, but this is about the narrative which AGs still do much better than RPGs.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
My personal favorite game is an [insert genre here], therefore [insert genre here] are superior.
My personal favorite game is an [insert genre here], therefore [insert genre here] are superior.
Not at all, listing my personal three favourite games, would also be listing three different genres I all love! Each genre has its strengths and weaknesses.
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
But the question here is specific about narrative and adventure is possibly better for more small focused intense stories, RGPs are better for large epic stories and worlds with complex systems.
But I do wish an adventure would dream bigger and be more open-world.
That was the whole point, the scale, scope, depth and richness in terms of lore,world building make RPGs more better than AGs. The problem is , though some of you are supporting the AGs like apologists, AG community never made conscious attempt to target BIG.
They mostly had inferior goals hence linear stories in one direction.
As in big like RPGs , so its hard to recall and relate with any good AGs that have
diversity and depth of RPGs. What you get is simple walk from point A to B with
fixed results and laughing at same jokes all the time. And others trying to copy that
and relive the past, in the meantime in RPG scene you get a sequel with fully loaded language of its own,
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Language (which in scope and effort as a
side activity is more than what focused stories in AG can do).
And when i say large open world with diversity it means the satisfaction or payoff is much higher.
Be it demographics,market, budget or Devs incompetence etc. AGs hardly try
the scope of RPGs, making it look like constrained Genre in terms of narrative.
Adv genre has protocols binding most of the Devs as they fail to even try the
scope and succeed.
RPGs usually contains a lot of lore, and many modern RPGs also tells a specific story, but it is still not one coherent story as we are used to in adventure games
Tendency to seek simplistic effective stories as a default element, and showering explanations is a weakness IMO. The same self imposed protocols that i mentioned above.
That was the whole point, the scale, scope, depth and richness in terms of lore,world building make RPGs more better than AGs. The problem is , though some of you are supporting the AGs like apologists, AG community never made conscious attempt to target BIG.
They mostly had inferior goals hence linear stories in one direction.
I’d say you’re mistaking BIG for GOOD - they’re not actually the same, you know. Similar thing with books - just because The Wheel of Time and The Game of Thrones are thousands of pages long doesn’t make them the best books ever written. RPGs similarly tend to have problems telling a clear, tight, concise story, and frequently end up as a messy sprawl. And even the best story-telling RPGs like Baldur’s Gate I & II tend to have bits of story broken up by lots of monster-bashing. Planescape Torment is pretty widely accepted as THE BEST example of storytelling within RPGs, and indeed, the gameplay is far less based around fighting or stealth than any other RPG I know.
Tendency to seek simplistic effective stories as a default element, and showering explanations is a weakness IMO. The same self imposed protocols that i mentioned above.
I’d say the basic story of a lot of RPGs is often pretty simplistic just padded with lots of side quests etc etc. But everyone’s entitled to their own opinion…only thing is you seem to be trying to force yours on everyone else.
That was the whole point, the scale, scope, depth and richness in terms of lore,world building make RPGs more better than AGs.
I think you are confusing lore with narrative!
Lore can indeed be use to create a deep and rich game-world, but if you want to tell a story you actually have to… well actually tell a story - and the simple truth is that the story of most RPGs can be written on the backside of a postage stamp.
There are of course some exceptions and some RPGs that are also story-heavy, but even the best of these tend to tell some very simple stories eg. a battle between good and evil, and can’t compare to the best storytelling that we find in AGs.
The problem is , though some of you are supporting the AGs like apologists
I haven’t got the slightest idea of who or what you are talking about, but that the members of a forum dedicated to Adventure Games actually like Adventure Games, should hardly come as a surprise to you.
... in the meantime in RPG scene you get a sequel with fully loaded language of its own,
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Language (which in scope and effort as a
side activity is more than what focused stories in AG can do).And when i say large open world with diversity it means the satisfaction or payoff is much higher.
And exactly what has this got do do with the narrative in RPGs vs. AGs??????
I’m sorry to say so, but so far all your arguments can be summarised to “RPGs are bigger and better than AG’s, therefore they have to have a better narrative”
You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ
I can not argue the depth or scale or worlds, etc of RPGs. But these features inevitably make it a synonym for a better narrative? Complexity is a synonym of a better narrative? I wonder.
” I remember. Somebody died. It was me.”
~
... in the meantime in RPG scene you get a sequel with fully loaded language of its own,
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Language (which in scope and effort as a
side activity is more than what focused stories in AG can do).And when i say large open world with diversity it means the satisfaction or payoff is much higher.
And exactly what has this got do do with the narrative in RPGs vs. AGs??????
I’m sorry to say so, but so far all your arguments can be summarised to “RPGs are bigger and better than AG’s, therefore they have to have a better narrative”
The example i gave is not just quantity of text but quality and effort.
How Dragon language is part of narrative???
Its there as a fabric of whole Skyrim culture, let alone story.
Its there to understand the books, the language of NPCs, Dragons and even used in
gameplay shouts so on. They aren’t tagged on.
Its there like GF mexican FolkLORE, only difference is that
RPG devs made their own language while AG dev used existing lore (for your understanding).
Narrative Definition = a spoken or written account of connected events; a story.
(check synonyms too for your semantics pot shots).
So technically lore is connected.
@lamb
I know what I’m dealing with so I want to save myself from having to respond.
Save your energy. You made your point , move on. I just want to know what
everyone thinks here, the points of discussion, though i know i am sitting on over sensitive Hive, there are still some level headed posters here.
Trying to justify Skyrim as a great story is hilarious. By virtue of it being open ended and random it makes a conhesive narritive impossible.
At best It’s a bunch of barely connected plot points and a thousand people wandering around talking about their knee injury.
It’s too easy to do things in an order that breaks the story, including being responsible for burning down one of the towns and then coming back a few minutes later to everyone having forgotten because you are on a different mission track.
After all by the end of the game I was leader of the Mage Guild, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, Dragon Born and the companions. Which is mental stupid.
It’s good at world building and atmosphere etc, but looking at it as a whole it barely hangs together.
An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
Roberta Williams
Trying to justify Skyrim as a great story is hilarious.
Which is mental stupid.It’s good at world building and atmosphere etc, but looking at it as a whole it barely hangs together.
Thats the terrible state of AGs, Skyrim a commercial and critical hit that did story better than AGs made in that timeline. you should know i am keeping it simple by mentioning Skyrim and not Witcher. Still.
By virtue of it being open ended and random it makes a conhesive narritive impossible.
Which is mental stupid
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