Adventure Gamers - Forums

furgotten - 26 August 2014 07:01 PM

I agree that Angelica’s use of “they” as a singular pronoun is perfectly fine in this usage. This blog entry has some interesting historical context and also some information on the current status:  http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2013/01/they-2.html

I have a more topical question. Is the second body a real body or the ghost of a body?

I like your link. English grammar, as I was taught it, came in the form of books colored green, grey, blue and red depending on the grade school level.

Spoiler or not, I think this was more a proofreading error by someone who knew more than “they” were supposed to know.

As for your second question I think it is a ghost body that only Angelica can see. We will see more of this as the game progresses. There are some revelations in the CE, or so I’ve been told by Becky. As for the SE version, either Angelica has some extraordinary powers, or this is a Sixth Sense sort of thing. Within the SE version of the game the question isn’t answered.

When are we moving on to the next section?

chrissie - 26 August 2014 06:35 PM

On the 1st, it’s not a grammatical error as although ‘they’ is a ‘plural’ word it’s also acceptable in the context of the sentence to use it to refer to one undefined person - Becky is right!

Still *feels* wrong, so I’d never use it myself.

chrissie - 26 August 2014 06:35 PM

On the 2nd, Angelica makes a comment about things being personal when she enters the workshop & sees the loom I’m sure!

I recall her saying it was personal even before that moment (I think it was in the kitchen but can’t be sure), but even without that, it’s relatively farfetched to immediately link a loom found in a garage to her own last name and a personal game by the killer she’s hunting.

But this is really all nitpicky. Minor quibbles.

rtrooney - 26 August 2014 08:38 PM

There are some revelations in the CE, or so I’ve been told by Becky. ... Within the SE version of the game the question isn’t answered.

I sincerely hope the people that are playing the CE will fill us in on the differences between both versions afterwards.

TimovieMan - 27 August 2014 06:40 AM

chrissie - 26 August 2014 06:35 PM

On the 1st, it’s not a grammatical error as although ‘they’ is a ‘plural’ word it’s also acceptable in the context of the sentence to use it to refer to one undefined person - Becky is right!

Still *feels* wrong, so I’d never use it myself.

I use it all the time, so it doesn’t feel wrong to me. Of course that’s easy to say for a non-native. But several native speakers told me years ago that it was okay in informal English. Language is a living entity and we should admire the versatility of the English language. Seriously. Isn’t it great that existing words in the *closed* lexical category of pronouns can evolve and create a new pronoun like themself.

Someone who finishes Syberia without a walkthrough should be proud of themself.

I think I should start ducking and running…

I had the exact same difficulties as other people. Figuring out using the cellphone as light source and missing the silly brick in the trash can like 5 times.

I accidentally used one hint in the beginning being an idiot. “What happens from this glowy thing?” Sheesh. There goes my achievement . At least I got the brick sudoku one.

Like chrissie I think the whole personal agenda toward Angelica is revealed before the brick puzzle. At least in the garage with the loom. Why on earth there would be a weaving tool there if not to point directly towards Angelica Weaver? Even in the remote case that the victim actually already had it, the puzzle gives it deeper meaning. I think before the garage she says that the killer is toying with police/her, with the TV and the washing machine and things like that, which is a form of being personal but I don’t think she accused the killer being directly after her at that point yet.

And I didn’t mind the use of ‘they’. I’m not a native speaker but to me it has also just seemed like a way around the gender. In our tongue we don’t have he or she anyway so it’s easier, no need to mix up plurals there.

I like the graphics and I think Angelica makes quite a lot of notions and remarks. I am entertained and the murder case(s) has piqued my interest.

Still using spoilertags here just because I’m used to them .

I have the CE edition but I’m not really sure how I would notice myself what’s supposed to be “the extra”.

The fact that you can’t refer to a person without knowing the sex of that person, has always struck me as being one of the oddities of the English language, so the use of ‘they’ in this context is actually an improvement as I see it. Though I didn’t know it was actually acceptable before I read about it here, who would have know that you actually learned something by participating in a casual playthrough?

chrissie - 27 August 2014 08:08 AM

I’m curious to know how you would refer to a person who’s a hermaphrodite where using he or she wouldn’t be appropriate & using ‘it’ would be rude? 

Hermaphrodites are always (usually?) brought up as either a girl or a boy and think of themselves as either a he or a she, so using either ‘he’ or ‘she’ would always be the most appropriate form, in fact using anything but ‘he’ or ‘she’ would be considered rude.

Regarding the game, then I haven’t actually gotten around to playing it yet, but I hope to play the first part this evening. (The world championship in Badminton with 10-12 hours transmission each day, has seriously reduced my playing time)

Lady Kestrel - 27 August 2014 12:42 AM

When are we moving on to the next section?

We were going to finish the first segment by Wednesday. And while it isn’t midnight Wednesday here, it’s already Thursday for some players. So we might as well get the second segment started.

We have until Saturday, August 30 to finish the segment. The segment is finished when you have managed to enter the boarding house.

Hint: It’s a balancing act

This segment also includes one of the hardest/most annoying puzzles in the game.

The infamous Footprint Puzzle! I’ve never been able to complete it. I don’t think Becky has either.

Have fun. 

TimovieMan - 27 August 2014 06:40 AM

I sincerely hope the people that are playing the CE will fill us in on the differences between both versions afterwards.

The SE and CE versions are identical up to the end of the SE version. The CE version offers bonus material such as a bonus chapter that “sometimes” adds understanding to the game you just played. I’ve found this to be the case about 10% of the time. Which is why I rarely purchase a CE version. Why spend twice the money on something that delivers marginal value 90% of the time.

I would definitely be interested in what information was delivered in the CE. Perhaps a “bonus narrative” once the playthrough is complete.

Edit: For some reason, undoubtedly user error, I didn’t see the “afterwards” in your original post. Sorry for the duplication.

I finished the 2nd part.  The footprint puzzle was a little fussy but not bad.  At least a misstep only deleted one section, not the whole thing.  Having done some stacking puzzles before that were too touchy, I like the way they got the balance right with this one.  I used all the items without knocking anything over.

millenia - 27 August 2014 07:58 AM

I accidentally used one hint in the beginning being an idiot. “What happens from this glowy thing?” Sheesh. There goes my achievement .

Hehe, had that happen as well. Restarted because of it.
But I had planned on restarting anyway, just to watch the opening movie again…

Becky - 27 August 2014 01:27 PM

The vision she refers to is pretty clearly the opening sequence – she is seeing what the victim (I’m assuming, Andrew Chapman) saw, starting in the present and then going into the past. He seems to have been shifted into the past and killed there/then, and his body was returned to the present to the spot where we see the outline on the sidewalk. At least, that’s my current theory.  I have a lot of questions as to what’s really going on, even though I played the entire CE game several months ago. I’m enjoyed the feeling of mystification.

The actual mechanism that allows the time travel to happen is anybody’s guess at this point.

I think the body that shows up after the brick puzzle is a real, corporeal body. A ghost or spirit then rises out of it, and the body disappears (back into the past?), and the ghost latches onto Angelica and either (A) shifts Angelica into the past or (B) brings Angelica into memories of the past that are so vivid that they appear to be real. From my previous playthrough months ago, I have a theory as to which of these two options it is, but I’m trying to keep an open mind in case I misinterpreted something. This woman/ghost seems to have been killed in the past by the same (black-gloved) killer who murdered Chapman in the past, or by someone else using an identical procedure.

My theory is that the shift into the past is actually also a shift to another victim - Chapman was killed in present day, but in the exact same manner as another victim in the London of over a century ago. I think that the London victim is the ghostly appearance we saw at the end of the first section.
In fact, I might even go so far as already identifying the killer: London in 1888 might suggest Jack the Ripper. My guess is Mr. Ripper is a time traveler and he’s repeating his London crimes in present day.

Becky - 27 August 2014 01:27 PM

Hey, nice screenshot of the infamous Footprint Puzzle! I am determined to solve it this time! Of course, I was also determined to solve the Goat challenge in Broken Sword 1. Guess who won, me or the goat?

Thanks. I finally got everything to work the way it is supposed to.

It’s interesting to see how other players are interpreting Angelica, the “perp” and other aspects of the space/time travel situation. We discussed this when the game first came out. (I think this game was my vote for game of the year when it was published.) And we seriously disagreed on almost everything.  For one thing, if the body by the brick puzzle is real, where did it go? After all, when you return to Chicago later in the game it’s gone. I don’t really buy the coroner’s office picking it up and taking it to the morgue. Chicago is not that efficient! I should know! 

I also think the person in the opening scene is the female Chapman. She is the one who gets killed in the opening sequence and who’s ghost is seen at the brick wall. The only thing we know about Andrew Chapman is that he is dead.

We’re about halfway through the game. I love the conversation.