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Adventure Game Scene of the Day — Tuesday 17 June 2014

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Karlok - 18 June 2014 09:41 PM
Doom - 17 June 2014 11:32 PM

Because Communism is very questionable. Jonas often shares his views on public, and I know his games are very personal - much more personal than, say, the games by TenNapel whom many people boycott following his much less questionable views. Of course, I’m not boycotting anything and I’m open to all opinions. I just don’t think I’ll learn anything new or interesting from those games, even if they are light on ideology. Oh, and I read reviews claiming that they are actually full of Marxist references Smile

Have you played any of his games?
Here is the intro to The Sea Will Claim Everything.

I often think about that old metaphor, the one that says we are all islands on a wide sea. Especially these days, now that things are more difficult than before and the world appears to be harsher than we once imagined it to be.

We are all like islands, the philosopher said. Perhaps it’s true. Yet I cannot help but remember an older saying scratched on a cave wall somewhere by a long-forgotten prophet: In the end the sea will claim everything.

The ancient words crash into my mind like waves, waking me from sleep, filling me with feelings I cannot fully understand. We are like islands. Does it mean we are connected? Do we share a common origin? Or just the common fate of sinking?

That sounds a whole lot more interesting than the snoozefest plot in The Neverhood. Looks like a developer’s personal philosophy doesn’t determine everything after all.

     
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I don’t know enough about the Russian Revolution to say anything meaningful, although I still have Emma Goldman’s autobiography and some books like The Kronstadt Uprising from my younger days. Smile But the comparison Kyratzes-TenNapel and Sea-Neverhood is interesting.

I find views of individuals “questionable” when some groups are denied rights, when some people are considered more equal than others. I have seen nothing to indicate that applies to Kyratzes and Ten Napel, even though I am suspicious of communism and don’t care for Ten Napel’s statements about homosexuality. At the time of the commotion I went to his site and read several discussions about christian topics. I was born and raised in a christian family, and I could appreciate some of his arguments but on the whole his way of thinking is alien to me. I also find him narrow-minded.

There’s politics in The Sea, there’s religion in The Neverhood. So what? I’m sure many people have never noticed the christianity in The Neverhood, or if they did weren’t bothered by it. Why would anybody object to a couple of quotes from Marx, who wasn’t a mass murderer anyway, among the many references to other writers? I bet most gamers in this day and age won’t recognize a Marx reference anyway. I know I probably would not recognize a Trotzky quote. Shifty Eyed

     

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Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

I can also talk about this for hours, but I really don’t want to.

You shouldn’t write a lot of questionable statements masquedaring as facts then Laughing .

Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

Well, to me it is obvious who was right and wrong in the war between Bolshevik terrorists sponsored by Germany and white army that protected their country.

Actually it was the white army invasion which was backed by many foreign governments. Who said Bolshevism must be “strangled in its cradle”, after all lol. Troops who fought in the “Russian Civil War” include British, French, American, Greek, Canadian, Serb, Romanian, Italian, Chinese and Australian - I seem to remember it was 17 foreign powers in total who fought in it, all on the “White” side.

Never heard of any major German involvement. And the use of the word “terrorists” is just pointless.

Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

Russian Empire was one of the most progressive economies of its time

Oh yeah, right. The majority of Russians just loved it. The February revolution had no support at all outside the Bolsheviks. That’s why it occured and was successful despite no real leadership or planning. Mass demonstrations and the mutiny of troops occured because of the Russian Empire’s wonderful progressive nature.

Doom - 18 June 2014 01:24 PM

You are mistaken. Mass murderers took place during civil war in 1917-1923, when tens of millions of people were killed.

No, they weren’t.

Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

Stalin’s period was also full of repressions, but the worst years were those during the civil war.

Nope, totally inaccurate. As your sudden change of argument shows.

Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

As for the numbers, between 10 and 30 millions of people died in 1917-1923s as a result of terror, hunger and war (full numbers are still unknown).

Ah, so “were killed” suddenly changes to “died”. Interesting. But yes, a lot of people died from hunger and war - that’s the result of nearly ten years of war caused by foreign powers invasion of Russia and backing of the Whites plus of course WW1. The figures from “terror” are a lot lower, and include, for example, an estimated 100,000 Jews killed in Ukraine, mainly by the Whites. What the figures would have been if the British and French hadn’t decided to try to strangle Bolshevism in its cradle we’ll never know, but the chances are it would have been a lot lower.

Doom - 18 June 2014 03:53 PM

Trotsky was the head of propaganda

Actually he was People’s Commissar of Foreign Affairs between 1917 and 1918 and head of the Red Army from 1918. Where’s your evidence he was head of propoganda? Sounds like an unsubstantiated slur to me.

Sefir - 18 June 2014 12:23 PM

There are people who believe that communism was not what trully existed in the USSR and East Germany, since this was far away from what communism trully represents, thus believing that communism is still untested.

Spot on Sefir.

 

     
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Sorry, DaveyB, but I think I made myself clear I don’t want to get involved in the political debate, which wasn’t started by me btw. Especially with socialists/communists and those who claim that they

Never heard of any major German involvement. And the use of the word “terrorists” is just pointless.

You know nothing about the history of the 1917 Revolution then, why even starting the debate? To put your two cents in? Discuss the game.

     

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Doom - 19 June 2014 10:07 AM

Sorry, DaveyB, but I think I made myself clear I don’t want to get involved in the political debate, which wasn’t started by me btw. Especially with socialists/communists and those who claim that they

Never heard of any major German involvement. And the use of the word “terrorists” is just pointless.

You know nothing about the history of the 1917 Revolution then, why even starting the debate? To put your two cents in? Discuss the game.

Basicaly, all my sources heavily agree with the grand majority of DaveyB’s statements (There was German involvement in BOTH sides, but that’s not the point). I am not a communist whatsoever and I most certainly believe that DaveyB is not the propaganda victim here…

But I also agree with you that this is no place for political talking.

     
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And it all started with an (innocent?) adventure game…

     

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Sefir - 19 June 2014 10:23 AM

Basicaly, all my sources heavily agree with the grand majority of DaveyB’s statements (There was German involvement in BOTH sides, but that’s not the point). I am not a communist whatsoever and I most certainly believe that DaveyB is not the propaganda victim here…

Thank you Sefir.

Sefir - 19 June 2014 10:23 AM

There was German involvement in BOTH sides, but that’s not the point

Hence I used the word “major”. Guess it’s a matter of opinion as to what “major” means Wink

Sefir - 19 June 2014 10:23 AM

But I also agree with you that this is no place for political talking.

 

I guess you’re right Sefir, but I struggle to let such inaccuracies go without responding. One thing the topic has done is to raise my interest for a game/developer which I haven’t acually played before. Would be interesting to hear more from those who have played the game as to how much Kryatzes’ views actually do play a role in the game - Karlok and Zifnab’s posts on the topic were illuminating and I’d be interested to hear more.

Doom - 19 June 2014 10:07 AM

Sorry, DaveyB, but I think I made myself clear I don’t want to get involved in the political debate, which wasn’t started by me btw.

Errr…yes it was.

Doom - 19 June 2014 10:07 AM

You know nothing about the history of the 1917 Revolution then

Enough to point out the mass of inaccuracies in your statements.

Doom - 19 June 2014 10:07 AM

why even starting the debate? To put your two cents in? Discuss the game.

Start the debate? No mea culpa. Think you need to find a mirror.

     
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DaveyB - 19 June 2014 10:58 AM

Errr…yes it was.

No it wasn’t. Reread my first post. I wasn’t going for any politics, I just pointed out why I didn’t play the game.

Enough to point out the mass of inaccuracies in your statements.

By somebody who learned history reading socialist/Cold War literature. I can only suggest to restart by learning biographies of bolshevik leaders, how and when they started and what happened inside the Russian Empire in 1880-1908 and 1914-1918, just to have some picture of what “tsarist oppression” and “revolution of working class” is all about.

     

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