Adventure Gamers - Forums

wilco - 04 June 2014 04:57 AM

I have nothing specifically against the verb coin, but I also don’t see why it needs to exist. If the interface was simplified to 3 actions in the verb coin, might as well only use left click -use;talk / right click - look.

Are you saying that “use-talk” shouldn’t co-exist, like in some games? That would make The Whispered World 30% less immersive experience.

wilco - 04 June 2014 05:18 AM

diego - 04 June 2014 05:10 AM

Are you saying that “use-talk” shouldn’t co-exist, like in some games? That would make The Whispered World 30% less immersive experience.

I’ve never played Whispered World, but I don’t think they need to co-exist. You either talk to person or use an object,no? Why is it 30% less immersive?

Did you play The Curse of Monkey Island? The fact that “use” and “talk” do co-exist produces some of the best puzzles in adventure game history. I’m not saying it needs to be there for all games, but in some, the fact that you can both use and talk to, not only people, but objects too, makes for a much more immersive gameplay. BTW, “talk” is not reduced to “speech” only in those games.

wilco - 04 June 2014 05:50 AM

diego - 04 June 2014 05:28 AM

Did you play The Curse of Monkey Island? The fact that “use” and “talk” do co-exist produces some of the best puzzles in adventure game history. I’m not saying it needs to be there for all games, but in some, the fact that you can both use and talk to, not only people, but objects too, makes for a much more immersive gameplay. BTW, “talk” is not reduced to “speech” only in those games.

I did play CoMI, and now that you mention it I seem to remember that talk is also eat/lick or something. I guess it depends of the design of the game (like everything…), if there is going to be an extra step in the interface, they better make sure it’s worth it.

I’m not putting my mouth on that. (Ben)

Bogi - 04 June 2014 06:01 AM

MI2 SE variant of verb coin is the best interface implemented in adventure games so far.

^ This. So very VERY much.

The only downside I know to verb coins (which I love), is the potential of them being too large for comfort. Which is a designer failure, and not a verb coin failure…

The really old verb coins could slow players down and distract them from the core challenge of a game. I know I’ve accidentally clicked the wrong verb on an item several times but if we’re getting down to use, talk and look then that’s fine.
 
A game can still be challenging with left-click/right-click controls but the interface streamlines playability so if you’re completely stuck you’re not going through all nine or whatever number of verbs on every item on each individual screen.

I liked the drop down menus in Larry 7. They felt intuitive since they were consistent with the functionality of the operating system and interactions were contextualised for each item you clicked on with an option to type a custom verb for added complexity. They weren’t very pretty but that didn’t matter because they were minimal and didn’t draw my attention away from the game’s world and its cool animations.

To elaborate on the topic of verb coins and the interface in MI2 SE (without spending a lot of time writing) I’ll just copy/paste some of the things I’ve said before on the forums.

TimovieMan - 20 January 2014 04:19 PM

The verb coin was an additional improvement [over the earlier SCUMM interfaces], as you now no longer had to move the cursor to another part of the screen first. Clicking once to bring up the coin was more efficient than moving the cursor away and back again. I was rather fond of the verb coin (especially if it wasn’t oversized).

...

My favourite interface is one you don’t see often/at all: it’s a 3-click interface.
Let me elaborate: the best use of the verb coin, imo, was the interface for the Special Edition of Monkey Island 2. The verb coin automatically removed the verbs that couldn’t be done at the time of clicking. This got rid of all the negative “I can’t do that” remarks. But above all: I loved it in combination with the right-click to look, left-click to open the verb coin, middle-click to bring up the inventory. This was a stroke of genius, imo, hence my “3-click interface” suggestion:
- left-click = interact
- right-click = look
- middle-click = open inventory
If the inventory isn’t integrated in the interface elsewhere, and needs to be brought up by clicking, then I wish more designers would assign the opening of the inventory to the middle mouse-button (or scroll).

TimovieMan - 16 December 2013 03:58 PM

Doom -

Agreed with that, verb coin was a really nice, user-friendly and timeless invention. And yet there are so few games that used it.

I agree. While I may have advocated the smart cursor here, I think the verb coin is still the best interface for adventure games.
In fact, my favourite verb coin is the streamlined one that was used in the Special Edition of Monkey Island 2 (where the options that didn’t apply to the hotspot you just clicked on, were taken out to avoid too many “that doesn’t work” remarks).

TimovieMan - 14 May 2013 11:51 AM

24. Many verbs/Actions use or at least the 3-4 coin’s commands .

I don’t see a lot of problems with just having a pointer to ‘look’ and ‘use’. I do prefer “verb coin pop-ups” (like in Full Throttle) over the “changeable cursor” (like in Sam & Max Hit the Road or Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers).
The Special Edition of Monkey Island 2 handled the interface extremely well, imo, with a pop-up verb coin that changed depending on the available actions (and with assigning the inventory to the middle mouse button which I consider a stroke of genius). I’d like to see more of that interface…

Methinks melikes the MI2 SE interface.

Certainly one of the best interfaces for graphic adventure games that rely on hotspots. It’s easy, intuitive, yet still gives enough freedom for experiments. Although I agree with thejobloshow on Larry 7 interface, it tops them all so far. Sierra icon interface also worked great in Sierra games, when one didn’t need to be pointed out which hotspot he should click, and which shouldn’t.

Larry 7 is, hands down, one of the best interfaces ever. It streamlined what Legend was doing with its text adventure/graphics adventure mash-up.

Doom - 04 June 2014 12:58 PM

Sierra icon interface also worked great in Sierra games, when one didn’t need to be pointed out which hotspot he should click, and which shouldn’t.

Depends on how many icons there were. The worst part of GK1 is the 8-icon interface where you need to click a massive amount of times to change the icon to the one you need (and the drop-down menu at the top isn’t that much faster either).
I don’t mind such an icon interface, as long as they limit the amount of icons to cycle through to about 4 or 5.
(In which case a verb coin becomes at least as interesting… )

TimovieMan - 04 June 2014 04:46 PM

Depends on how many icons there were.

Yeah, I mean the basic interface introduced in King’s Quest 5. Later modifications varied, but that’s also what I like about Sierra games: they experimented a lot! That’s it, until they moved to a smart cursor. Only Larry 7 and Gabriel 3 tried something new after.