Adventure Gamers - Forums

Before going through this, I let you know that i have taken Broken Sword5 and Black Mirror as some role examples to explain some points down here ,and also you might wanna answer this because before reading; because it seems that I do not quite get it lately ,aren’t adventure games all about being challenged ?

1st I would like to state that many things came over the traditional adventure gaming that might one way or the other ruined the genre or at least ruined the fun we used to have.

How many times you felt or even said it loud to yourself “if only it was/wasn’t like that..” .I have just finished Broken Sword5/Part1 and the game is not alright ,many times or lets say all the time I came out loud saying “why George had to say that (out loud)” it seemed for me as if its targeting different audience than those of the prior 4 parts ,there are three things mainly I disliked and I wished they have been changed:
1-the way George kept saying what he needed to do every now and then was very absurd why would the designer take away the satisfaction of trying out what seems to be obvious and logical ,wasn’t that hint system included enough .
2-The whole way through the game ,about escaping locations or rooms ,sometimes that would seem alright whether at Broken Sword5 or Black Mirror sometimes the design of that game doesn’t hold the option of our protagonist leaving the place without figuring out something ,and even sometimes it helps with the gameplaying for example; I am at Black Mirror where the kid’ crime just happened Gordon does wanna leave yet ,because if he leaves no one would have any idea of solving the puzzle concerning how to distract the detective. but to be the core and the essence of gameplaying is way over board with the idea ,I do not mind if this to happen several times but not all along the adventure.
3-The way the game disables locations because you don’t have any business to do there .I say lets enable all places let me wander freely and don’t make feel controlled by your bad design! ,I think this might be the ultimate sin in a adventure game ,why highlight some places and disable another ,doesn’t that “spoils” all the fun.

The absence of the hotspot revealer is a bless(IMO) ,at some adventure its referred to as ‘hints’ and they are. It’s nice that the game didn’t have it and there are no real pixel hunting at the Broken Sword5 ,maybe once out twice as far ,also I like to mention that there is a big difference between pixel hunting and the absence of the hotspots revealer ,because bad pixel hunting is always intended by a designer. I see that without pixel hunting developers have lost a lot of chances into making the game more challenging ,and I think it might helped them more than we thought its helping us ,by featuring descriptions only for the spots that light up whenever spacebar is pressed .Talking about the freedom of the old text adventures and recreating it into modern adventure games ,well King’s Quest6 had it all ,everything was clickable and everything can be interacted ‘with’ each had its own description whether was important or not.

We always talked about the length of one adventure ,shouldn’t all those points mentioned above ,would have let the game be a little bit longer ,or is it now measured by the length of dialogues and the cutscenes ?

Sometimes I seriously think that developers became afraid their adventures wouldn’t be appreciated or even left out by gamers ,because they would get stuck somewhere ,so they start cuddling and spoiling them like little babies with everything there is so that won’t happen ,but they actually turning old gamers away ,and when it comes to adventure gaming ,ager adventure gamers matter.

I think its maybe time to have for all adventure games difficulty levels ,that would be managed by able/disable some certain things like those mentioned above ,let me point that into points:-
1st.Hotspot revealer should be an option and always decided from the start of the adventure and it would be a start to control difficulty levels.
2nd.Disabling locations should be an option to guide some adventurer through the game.
3rd.Hits from the protagonist should be included or not as an option ,at Black Mirror the start of chapter4 the kid had died and I am here at the castle ,Gordon doesn’t say “I need to go and ask about maybe someone saw anything interesting” and that is good ,despite Broken Sword5; I want the providence and I know that Biguo has it and the detective wont allow me to leave but when I can ,George has to spell out loud! why?
4th.The inventory object when reacts with surrounding and other items highlights or flashes like with Cranberry’ game or FutureGames’ and that would also should also be an option as it was the case with Memoria.

So back to the main subject ,the way adventure games shouldn’t be; object picked for inventory shouldn’t always betaken unless known the reason for ,this might be something rare to find in adventure game ,this was well featured at The Black mirror ,sure there are useful and very collectable things such keys lighters and so on..

Adventure games Shouldn’t have puzzle concerning general information ,as the zodiac and solar system puzzles at Black Mirror ,general information might just be asked to verify some age like 1st Larry game but not more.

One minor thing also shouldn’t be a problem with modern AGs scrolling through Inventory must end ,and they could remain at different sizes down at the bottom of the screen ,its very tiring and shouldn’t remain an obstacle ,and that was actually found at Perry Rhodan.

At last I would like to confirm (which is obvious) that I am no where to say what should and shouldn’t so all what said would remain a point of view ,agreeing or disagreeing with me wont change anything (unless all developers are lurking around) ,but you should have yours.

Adventure games should be any way they want to be as long as they are fun to play.

Why put a straight jacket on the genre and limit it’s potential?

I am not putting on anything ,but there are things that shouldn’t ruin the fun.

Fun is in the eye of the beholder.

Why dictate that general knowledge can’t be used or no scrolling inventory, no disabling locations, no random picking up of items, no hotspot revealers, or the variety of other limitations would would like to see.

Personally you may not like any of those things but there might be others that do and it’s not up to any of us to dictate what should or shouldn’t be considered when making an adventure game.

actually that is well said Lucien , and I see you’r ok with everything the genre been offering , I am disappointed with the taste ,not yours but all those half cooked adventures .

plus all those mentioned are the limitations themselves ,I just would like to see them removed .

I disagree strongly. I think The Black Mirror is one of the best games ever made. Story and characters are fantastic, atmosphere is perfect, interface is easily the best ever made and the game is full of hotspots and things to explore, which is what I mostly like to do when i play adventure games. I think Black Mirror and Broken Sword 5 are those rare exceptions, where everything was done right. They are both in my top 10, actually.

Black Mirror is great, I wasn’t referring to it in anybad way ,and I liked to choose those two as they held the two sides of the issues I mentioned ,the only thing I didn’t like about BM was the 2 puzzles concerning general information’ ,actually does one person need to know the zodiac signs by heart or the solar system order ?

I agree with some of the points you’ve made Advie. A hotspot revealer should be optional, and fortunately, it usually is (except on touch devices). I also agree that the main character shouldn’t suddenly give hints out loud unless it’s an optional setting, like it was in Tales of MI.

There are some simplifications about adventure games that I DO like though. I like that (most) items are removed from the inventory when they’ve served their purpose. Being stuck with page upon page of unusable items can add to the frustration of being stuck, especially in a game where trying items on hotspots only gives generic responses.

I also usually don’t mind locations being disabled when there’s nothing more to discover in them. However, I think Broken Sword 5 did this the wrong way, because almost every time you entered a location, all other locations were disabled. To enable this approach, they had to place every item needed for a puzzle in the same location as the puzzle, which inevitably made the game completely linear, easier, and the playtime shorter. I disagreed with this approach, the linearity made me feel slightly claustrophobic and I’ve seen many others complain about it too. I hope they give us more freedom with part 2 and spreads the items around a bit

For me one of the greatest sins in many (not all) adventure games is linearity. Running between 2-5 locations in order to proceed to the next 2-5 locations, hotspots constantly appearing and disappearing, the predetermined order of receiving tasks and solving puzzles. And that common catchphrase: “I’m not leaving this room before…”. Argh! I miss the opportunity to solve multiple puzzles at one time, like Monkey Island or Quest for Glory games offered, running around a huge map, getting mild hints here and there, but not from protagonist himself, as Advie mentioned. Maybe that’s too much to ask, but well, I’m claustrophobic.

Dag - 11 January 2014 05:21 PM

There are some simplifications about adventure games that I DO like though. I like that (most) items are removed from the inventory when they’ve served their purpose. Being stuck with page upon page of unusable items can add to the frustration of being stuck, especially in a game where trying items on hotspots only gives generic responses.

I am aright of many simplifications and that is one of them I agree with ,I hate useless inventory items ,I am even right with hints in an indirect way ,I made a thread before talking about how Crispin at Primordia was very helpful ,and never took away the satisfaction but I just see big difference between simplifying and spoiling .

Doom - 12 January 2014 12:42 AM

For me one of the greatest sins in many (not all) adventure games is linearity. Running between 2-5 locations in order to proceed to the next 2-5 locations, hotspots constantly appearing and disappearing, the predetermined order of receiving tasks and solving puzzles. And that common catchphrase: “I’m not leaving this room before…”. Argh! I miss the opportunity to solve multiple puzzles at one time,

its seems that is our fate that the player and the protagonist should be at total different view of the situation

chrissie - 11 January 2014 03:49 PM

Adventure Games have got a new lease of life due to hand-held gadgets where they have to be made to appeal to a whole new bunch of ‘non-adventure’ gamers for the developers to make money & continue to make new games

I thought they already had/have the money to give a game they wouldn’t find publishers for ,because it comes from a genre not much of the mainstream players care about! ... so long with the adventure gaming ‘kickstarters’ dreams .